42 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

No reason to remove or cut down the pilot tree perks. Just factor them into game matching.

[3rdworld]

[MadcatX]

As illustrated, advertisement may be misleading.

[FupDup]

3rdworld, on 21 July 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

This is what that page SHOULD look like:

[Acid Phase]

FupDup, on 21 July 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

This is what that page SHOULD look like:

You sir have won the internets!

And here's a message from our sponsors....

Edited by Acid Phase, 21 July 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[efryt]

FupDup... you are my hero!

[Tezcatli]

And as usual the community shows it's true colors.

[Galenit]

I would prefer a system i mentioned before.
You have to choose from more skills but can not take all.
This is a way to give the player a option to define his role a lot better with chooseable skills that define his role.
I want to play a scout, do i need heatcontainment or should i take the second moduleslot thats for a sensorrangemodule only? My commandmech dont need to go much faster, i prefer a extra slot to store a second airstrike.

Ill try to explain it, by my english is not the best:

Baseskills are the same for every weight class.
There are 8 basicskills with 5 tiers. You can choose up to 20 basicskilltiers, 15 will unlock master skills.

Masterskills are the same for every mechtyp, like for all ravens or atlas.
There are 6 masterskills with 5 tiers. You can choose up to 15 masterskillstiers, 10 will unlock elite skills.

Eliteskills are for every specific mech, like for a 3l or x4
There are 4 possible masterskills with 1 (counts as 5) or 5 tiers, you can choose up to 10 tiers. One of the four is allways a modulunlock, the other 3 depend on the intended roll of the mech.


Skills can be the same for some chassis or weightclasses or mechs.
As example every mech can have speedtweek, but the lights will have them as basicskill, the assaults as eliteskill. For heat containment is turned, assaults have it as basic and lights as elite.

Masterskills contain chassis specific elements like arm movement for mechs with real arms, if there are mechchassis where every mech has jumpjets, the jump-jet skill can appear hear instead of the eliteskills.

Eliteskills contain mech specific elements like jumpjet skills and for every mech 1 modulslot, for some maybe a second (for a specifc module or consumable). It contains also the opposite weightclass skill like speed-tweak for assaults or heat-containment for lights. This is also the place to give the awesome his third ppc or the hunchi its lasers.


5 Tiers of 1 skill is the same as 1 skill now.
15 basicskilltiers, 10 masterskilltiers and 5 eliteskilltiers will cost as much as all the skills now together.
You need more xp to fill up all the skill to max, but you can only have the half of all possible skilltiers.
The 2x basic mumpitz vanishes, its to much and not needed, it reduces difference.


Second maybe moduleslots should match the mechs role. Like giving the 3l the option for a second. uav or sensorrange moduleslot or the dedicated command mech a second air/arti slot.


This will take some work, but if the devs want, i think the community can come up with some detailed and balanced solutions. This will take a lot of work from the devs.

Edited by Galenit, 21 July 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[El Bandito]

The skill tree offers too much benefits. The bonuses should be halved.

[CeeKay Boques]

El Bandito, on 21 July 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

The skill tree offers too much benefits. The bonuses should be halved.

Why even have them then?

[Galenit]

Technoviking, on 21 July 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Why even have them then?

Whats when you can choose all of them, but with half effect or the half of them with full effect?
But in both cases without the 2x basic mumpitz.

[Bagheera]

Jungle Rhino, on 02 April 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

Also I think that some of the skills need to be removed entirely:
> Speed Tweak - this is breaking the game right now as Ravens go the same speed as Spiders while Atlas's go at 65kmph (that is how fast most mediums/heavies ought to be going!). Mechs just go way too fast. Get rid of it.

*sigh*

You are going after the wrong cause. Spiders, Commandos, Ciacadas, Locusts, and Fleas are all UNABLE to go their maximum (engine restriction legal) speeds because of the Netcode SpeedWall that is imposed on all mechs.

Ravens and Jenners are - because of the way engine restrictions were implemented - able to achieve their maximum MW:O speed (the 152ish range) while other lights cannot because the engine they need to reach beyond that speed is unavailable to them because PGI has yet to get the game engine to work with a 200kph object.

This has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with skill unlocks.

[Odins Fist]

Jungle Rhino, on 02 April 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

> Speed Tweak - this is breaking the game right now

I am astounded... Please stop, just stop.

[Lefty Lucy]

El Bandito, on 21 July 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

The skill tree offers too much benefits. The bonuses should be halved.

While I agree with this sentiment, I also lament the fact that it's not a skill "tree."

I think it would be great if we had a true skill tree where picking certain bonuses excluded you from others, but also only if people with similar experience levels fought against one another. While the situation in MWO is not quite as extreme as a level-cap player fighting a level 1 in most MMOs, it's still faintly ridiculous that the game pits "high level" players against "low level" players all the time.

[FupDup]

Lefty Lucy, on 21 July 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

While I agree with this sentiment, I also lament the fact that it's not a skill "tree."

I think it would be great if we had a true skill tree where picking certain bonuses excluded you from others, but also only if people with similar experience levels fought against one another. While the situation in MWO is not quite as extreme as a level-cap player fighting a level 1 in most MMOs, it's still faintly ridiculous that the game pits "high level" players against "low level" players all the time.

Also, the pilot tree damn well should be different for each and every chassis and variant. For instance, maybe Ravens could have a perk for reduced radar signature, Awesomes could have a higher max alpha, Spiders could have faster recharging JJ's, Jagermechs could get a lower jam frequency, etc. etc.

Edited by FupDup, 21 July 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Sable Dove]

The CBill and GXP grind are more than enough grinding. We shouldn't have to grind every new mech just so they don't suck. Not to mention, you have to buy three variants for every mech you want to not suck. Especially annoying when there are only one or two variant for a chassis that aren't awful.

Mech efficiencies also favour assaults much more than lighter mechs, as the added mobility isn't very noticable on an already-agile mech, but on an assault, where lack of mobility is the only drawback, efficiancies make them the best class in the game.

They should just remove it. Use mech XP for non-gameplay purposes, or get rid of it altogether.

But it will never happen, because without the asinine mech grinding, who would pay PGI's outrageous XP-conversion fees?

[Nryrony]

Jungle Rhino, on 02 April 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

Also I think that some of the skills need to be removed entirely:
> Speed Tweak - this is breaking the game right now as Ravens go the same speed as Spiders while Atlas's go at 65kmph (that is how fast most mediums/heavies ought to be going!). Mechs just go way too fast. Get rid of it.

One of the most disturbing things in this game is the actual movement speed. All mechs feel slow, even the lights with 150 kph. And slow mechs are easy to hit, besides a Spider, every mech is an easy target for a ranged build.

Also, since small obstacles slow you down massively, its even worse. Not to mention when you simply got stuck, for apparently no reason.

And with it, turning rates, torso twist speed and angels need to be fixed, so that lights and mediums have an actual chance. While Assaults and Heavys can't shoot them that easily anymore.

Edit* lights should also be able to doge LRMs, just by been as fast as they are -> even without cover. - However not all of them ofc.

Edited by Nryrony, 21 July 2013 - 01:47 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Jungle Rhino, on 02 April 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

This is something that has been bugging me for a while - there is a massive difference between a 'green' mech with no pilot skills and a fully matered mech.

Ok so maybe that should be true but here is the problem. All the mechs feel the same once you have doubled up all the acceleration/deceleration/turning stats. You can stop on a dime, twist anywhere almost instantly. It is a bit over the top and completely overwhelms the mech 'tweaking' they are currently trying to implement.

I think a great place to start would be to halve the effect of all pilot skills. (I'd get rid of them entirely but everyone loves a grind!)

Also I think that some of the skills need to be removed entirely:
> Speed Tweak - this is breaking the game right now as Ravens go the same speed as Spiders while Atlas's go at 65kmph (that is how fast most mediums/heavies ought to be going!). Mechs just go way too fast. Get rid of it.

> Heat dissapation & Heat Capacity - these are too closely linked to the heat balancing mechanics and should be removed for that reason. Or at least drastically toned down. Currently ALL mechs take a 250 engine, minimum, with 10 DHS in it. Coupled with the pilot skills you can run hot weapons all day long without ever having to fit any additional heat sinks. Lights are the worst offenders here and thanks to these pilot skills they don't have to fit any additonal heat sinks which makes fitting the mech out trivial and cookie cutter.

Your right Pilot skills ARE overwhelming.....well at least the SKILL the PILOT (us) brings to the game can be overwhelming if your good enough.

As far as the efficiencies, yeah no so much.

Here is how good the efficiences are:

Trial AS7-RS(c) which has zero ability to unlock anything ever so green as green can be.

Matches: 45
Wins: 29
Losses: 16
W/L: 1.81
Kills: 55
Deaths: 20
K/D: 2.75
Avg Dmg: 355

Yeah I am doing just horrible without being able to unlock Elite or even Basic pilot skills.

Seriously, they do offer better performance for the mech but at the end of the day it is the Player, not efficiencies which make the mech effective or not. It is absolutely not a huge advantage.

[Lyoto Machida]

Zyllos, on 02 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

I hope the Mech Skills system will be totally revamped with an included Pilot Skills system.

I would introduce a Mech Skills and Pilot Skills Equip system. Basic skills take 1 skill slot to equip, Elite skills take 2 skill slots to equip, and the Master skill takes 3 skill slots to equip.

All mechs have 8 skill slots to equip with. Getting Elite doubles the Basic skill values while getting Master doubles the Elite skill values.

The Pilot Skills would be applied to all mechs. Each Pilot has only 5 skill slots. The skills cost the same number of skill slots to equip.

What this does is allow players to further customize their mechs instead of not seeing their full potential unless you have all your skills mastered. You could equip an extra module slot for a mech, or equip all four Elite skills, or equip 8 of the 10 Basic skills, or mix and match. Then add some Pilot related skills. Pilot skills would center around weapons and equipment, most likely. It's based on the idea that your pilot likes utilizing some type of configurations, no matter the type of mech your playing. Unless, of course, your mech just doesn't allow those types of weapons/equipment.

This is where I hope the whole XP System heads to. Instead of just being a pool to grind, it's something you work torwards and make choices to modify the mech.

I'd love that PGI has already said they won't be doing that. Then again, they said a lot of other things as well...

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 21 July 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Also, the pilot tree damn well should be different for each and every chassis and variant. For instance, maybe Ravens could have a perk for reduced radar signature, Awesomes could have a higher max alpha, Spiders could have faster recharging JJ's, Jagermechs could get a lower jam frequency, etc. etc.

Or, imagine if there are weapon specific perks. If I use LRMs a lot, I could get 5% reduction to LRM cooldown, or 5% to LRM accuracy--but that also means I will not get bonus to any other weapon systems.

Something like that.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 July 2013 - 06:03 PM.