23 replies to this topic

[GHQCommander]

Been playing for a week now and for the first time I seen a team that looked pre-made because 4 of them were in the same house plus the 4 players were in the same mechs.

Is that possible or will it be possible eventually?

A guild in any PvP will always best a team of randoms. They have more communication, they are used to playing with each other and they already have well practiced strategies that they are very used to. I hate it and I suffered it in Star Trek Online. Don't mind it so much in other games but games where the win or lose has a big effect on earnings are a different. We want to know a team can't go into match with gauranteed advantages.

So is this game going to force a pre-made team to play another pre-made?

Over the years I've found players who never play PvP without their mates/guildl think its fine to play randoms. Hell in some games they will spawn kill newbies, we all see it. Sadly they make up the numbers of PvP players to an extent there is not enough to complain about it and have it changed. I'm wondering what this communities plans are for fairness.

Some players hate their bubble being burst. Telling themselves it is 100% skill winning the match, nothing to do with some advantages because the other team just met each other 1 minute ago and need to type up their commands even during combat while being shot at. Ye sure no advantage to the guild team there lol They think this is a realistic way to think because in their eyes it is still possible to beat them, which it is. Just far less likely. Their argument will always be, if the game allows it, then its fair.

So I hope the game doesn't or won't allow it after beta or I'm seriously saving my cash for Star Citizen and chucking my mech into the scrapyard.Legendary purchase is a better loss than losing my marbles in frustration because 8 lone wolfs get put up against 8 from one house.

You think we'll start seeing that?

[xDeityx]

The Elo matchmaking system is in place and already addresses your concerns about fairness. Within the best limits of the technology players are being matched as fairly as possible against players of an equal skill level given the extremely small player pool we are working with.

[Yokaiko]

Don't play AM us time.

I see trial mechs with over 3000 games.

[Tickdoff Tank]

I am still hoping that they will put in "tag" showing which people are in a group. Would solve a lot of the issues with wondering who is on a team.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I think that in the future grouping together and using VOIP will be much more easy than it is now.

[Ngamok]

You're a founder and this is the first time you've seen this?

[Lorcan Lladd]

There was a developer post on the subject; it seems as though PGI doesn't plan on separating groups from solo players at any point in the forseeable future.
Within reason, separate queues are already in effect with the availability of the 8-man queue as for the most part it is only populated by the competitive groups whom could be causing trouble and pugstomping random drop teams in the regular queue.

Perhaps segregating solo and group droppers won't be necessary as long as the matchmaker is refined further down the road to make Elo ratings and weight classes more balanced.
The implementation of good in-game communications for solo players would also tighten the gap in any Elo tier.

We will see.

Edited by Lorcan Lladd, 02 April 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[GHQCommander]

Yokaiko, on 02 April 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Don't play AM us time.

I see trial mechs with over 3000 games.

I've not figured out how to check such stats yet but if your serious, 3000. That will only force them to apply a match limit to trial mechs because they want them purchased.

I think your point is about avoiding the time when the full-time kind of players are on, the US kids that stay off School to play games? It's the kids that kick *** especially when they don't even need to get off theirs backside to eat their Mummy brings it to their room on a tray. Same in any game, the kids are deadly and take days off School to stay at the top of leaderboards lol

Ngamok, on 02 April 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

You're a founder and this is the first time you've seen this?

Only played for a week

[GHQCommander]

Lorcan Lladd, on 02 April 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

There was a developer post on the subject; it seems as though PGI doesn't plan on separating groups from solo players at any point in the forseeable future.
Within reason, separate queues are already in effect with the availability of the 8-man queue as for the most part it is only populated by the competitive groups whom could be causing trouble and pugstomping random drop teams in the regular queue.

Perhaps segregating solo and group droppers won't be necessary as long as the matchmaker is refined further down the road to make Elo ratings and weight classes more balanced.
The implementation of good in-game communications for solo players would also tighten the gap in any Elo tier.

We will see.

That makes me tempted to abandon the game because by end of 2013 its going to be 8 friends playing 8 randoms, in too many matches.

But as you said there is still room for improvement in communications. If C3 is used to put all players into a Team C3 channel it might work but only if the matching system does its best to put C3 users together.

[Aym]

Well, it's a team based game... of mech combat... I'm so confused by the OP... Vets v. newbies has nothing to do with small team + pug v. pug.

[Yokaiko]

GHQCommander, on 02 April 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

That makes me tempted to abandon the game because by end of 2013 its going to be 8 friends playing 8 randoms, in too many matches.

But as you said there is still room for improvement in communications. If C3 is used to put all players into a Team C3 channel it might work but only if the matching system does its best to put C3 users together.

That is very unlikely the most people that can be on a team against a pug is 4. full 8 man groups can only queue against other full 8 man groups.

[Ngamok]

GHQCommander, on 02 April 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

That makes me tempted to abandon the game because by end of 2013 its going to be 8 friends playing 8 randoms, in too many matches.

But as you said there is still room for improvement in communications. If C3 is used to put all players into a Team C3 channel it might work but only if the matching system does its best to put C3 users together.

Yea, there is room for improvement.

As for 8 mans, you can't pugstomp 8 mans right now unless you are sync dropping two 4 man groups. And a good portion of the time, you wind up on opposite teams too if you do it, or not at all.

[Lightfoot]

It should be balanced by ELO matchmaking. Players who team will be matched against players of equal ability. That likely means teams vs another team.

MechWarrior takes some time to learn. I say you learn faster with a Joystick, but to each his/her own.

Each weapon system has a weakness and a strength. Like LRMs, well in MWO they are very weak so maybe you can just run through them, but in previous MechWarrior games running through LRMs was doom. However, LRMs have numerous weaknesses. Broken ground, buildings, low tracking and in MWO they can't lock-on to a powered down mech (with BAP they can at 200 meters though). So basically you shouldn't get hit by them if you think it through.

Of course as you get better the ELO will move you up the skill ladder, so you will always have to play smart.

Eventually you will join a Merc Unit in MWO even if you never group in other MMOs. MechWarrior is much more fun with the RP of being in a Merc Unit on missions, etc. That part is coming in Community Warfare (CW).

[Joseph Mallan]

Yokaiko, on 02 April 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

That is very unlikely the most people that can be on a team against a pug is 4. full 8 man groups can only queue against other full 8 man groups.

Not 100% true. You have the Marik House drops. where multiple House Marik players try to drop together by sync dropping individually. (sounded better in my head).

However 4 man teams are a legal part of the game.

[Adridos]

Aym, on 02 April 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Well, it's a team based game... of mech combat... I'm so confused by the OP... Vets v. newbies has nothing to do with small team + pug v. pug.

Yep, no matter what crazy manouver those pugs can pull off, unless the premade team is in it for trolling or have a few bottles of alcohol inside them, they win.

Communication is teh greatest tool in a team based game and they are allowed a very limited part of it.

[GHQCommander]

Ngamok, on 02 April 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Yea, there is room for improvement.

As for 8 mans, you can't pugstomp 8 mans right now unless you are sync dropping two 4 man groups. And a good portion of the time, you wind up on opposite teams too if you do it, or not at all.

Ah so it is 4 in a team. I wasn't sure about that either.

Thanks all. Room for improvement in VOIP and a limit of 4 in a group for queues, providing it stays staying that way, helps me stick around.

[Lucas the Bounty Hunter]

In game voice chat would balance the field immensely, and as a corps member who loves 4-manning it, it would let us communicate with the 4 individuals we drop with. Win/win?

And yes, 8-mans can only be matched against other 8-mans, though it is possible to sync-drop two 4-mans (We usually only would do a 4 and a 2 or 3, since we can't drop as 5, 6, or 7's) but that's very random and doesn't usually work anyway.

ELO (the matchmaking system) is fairly new and will take a while to fully balance players.

This is a great game, but it's not fully developed yet. It has a lot of potential. I hope you stick with it.
Happy hunting.

Note: I would highly recommend you download TS3 and log onto NGNG's server or ComstarUS. They have dropships (channels) where individuals can join each other and arrange drops. Playing with friends in a team-based game is a lot of fun.
Cheers.

[GHQCommander]

Aym, on 02 April 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Well, it's a team based game... of mech combat... I'm so confused by the OP... Vets v. newbies has nothing to do with small team + pug v. pug.

There is a big difference in the concept of a team game where a bunch of a players are put on the same side and a bunch of players playing as a team using teamwork on the same side.

Surely you don't think there is so much teamwork happening in this game or any PvP game with pug queues that its ok for the 100% pug team to be matched against the kind of team this post is about?

[GHQCommander]

Adridos, on 02 April 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Yep, no matter what crazy manouver those pugs can pull off, unless the premade team is in it for trolling or have a few bottles of alcohol inside them, they win.

Communication is teh greatest tool in a team based game and they are allowed a very limited part of it.

Exactly. Communication is a huge advantage in anything humans do.

Despite this a lot of PvP guilds will claim it is not a huge advantage but then read their recruitment message which always demands TS or Vent right. Obviously because they know it is an advantage.

So my point of this post was to trigger some answers in where this game is going in this area because it can make a huge different to everyones experience.

I think the result is realizing that I need to ask for, beg for and support an auto team channel using C3. STO has that and the PvP in that game is pathetic. So I'm confident MWO will get it, maybe already being worked on. This will help not just to communicate with pug teams but to find other players actually using headsets and friend them.

[Aym]

GHQ, I think the game MUST have small groups allowed, and therefore MUST have some pugs filling in the gaps to make even teams. Should both teams be balanced with a team, ideally yes, but the current player base is too small to support it. I'm under no illusions regarding the value of communication, but I think some people over-estimate the communication within the spectrum of groups.