58 replies to this topic

[DevilJade]

Dishevel, on 03 April 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Low heat levels for a mech are not equivalent to snow. Not even close.
Look at that last pic. The one that is done correctly. Look at how the human being at 98.6 deg F his face is bright white.
Even the heat leaking through his clothing stands out. A mech that is operating even at "low heat levels" is much warmer than a person.
Period.
If they do not want a thermal view then do not have one.
To have a thermal view that can not tell the difference between an operating mech and snow is not just "unreal",. It is monumentally stupid.

We aren't talking about people.... we are talking about the surface temperature of vehicles. Talk about monumentally stupid... Notice the car in that picture? Last I checked, internal combustion engines run hotter than a persons core temperature.

Edited by DevilJade, 03 April 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Does anyone else find themselves using night vision for far away targets on River City Night and using thermal vision for brawling combat?

[Rizzelbizzeg]

All the mechs I've piloted IRL were the same temp as snow.

[Dishevel]

DevilJade, on 03 April 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

We aren't talking about people.... we are talking about the surface temperature of vehicles. Talk about monumentally stupid... Notice the car in that picture? Last I checked, internal combustion engines run hotter than a persons core temperature.

Because a car dumps it minimal heat actively only through the radiator front of the car.
Any shot that shows a radiator will show it very well indeed.
The Heat Sinks on a mech are dumping heat actively in a similar manner.
They will show up well on a mech because they will only really work in one of two ways.
1) Dumping heat directly to the outside Air. (Super Bright Spots on the surface of the mech.)
2) Dumping heat to the shell of the mech directly. (Entire shell warm with areas warmer than others)
It will not dump heat into the air around the weapon and then slowly warm the shell which then would slowly dump the heat to the outside.
Mechs are not designed like cars. They have different needs.
At low temps it needs HS just to run. When it is shooting weapons it is not just hotter than the outside.
At that point it is getting so hot that its specialized future systems for dumping that heat get so overwhelmed that there is a danger of ammo cooking off and damage to the mech itself! At this point the mechs outer temperature is not 98.6 degs F it is most likely well over 400 degs.
Normal operation the whole outside of a mech will be over 90 degs. Cooling from a high heat situation....

[Hedonism Robot]

I have no idea what the OP is getting at, Devil Jade has proven him wrong with real pictures and science. OP just keeps making up battletech lore mumbo jumbo to pointlessly complain. Thermals are not even supposed to be the optimal vision mode in alpine anyway. Alpine has no weather conditions and the battle takes place in the middle of the day. How can you not see enemy mechs with normal vision?

1.) Does the new vision mode mimic real thermals better: yes

2.) Does the new vision mode provide better balance than blue warrior online: yes

[jay35]

Looking forward to the new heat vision actually having heat gradients/better definition on the mechs, and being more of a thermal view and less of a black & white monochrome filter on normal vision.

[MaddMaxx]

Dishevel, on 02 April 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

So ... Still ... I am right.

Oh snap. OK everyone! Please move on. We have found the Weiner of this thread.

Thanks for playing everyone . New "I win the Thread" Tickets will be on Sale in the salon... Soon^TM

Edited by MaddMaxx, 03 April 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Roadbeer]

DevilJade, on 02 April 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

Here I saved you the trouble. Short clip of Alpine Peaks at start of match, hunchback is shooting off a few lasers and watch how he glows.

Looks legit.
All further QQ is baseless.

[jay35]

Occupied and running vehicles will always have heat signatures significantly higher than ambient temperature in winter environments, such that they will readily show up on thermal imaging. This is because anything occupied by a human has climate control which is heating the interior which naturally warms the exterior from the inside out. Heat radiating and conducting through those panels will inherently raise their surface temperature to some degree above ambient. Same goes for the power source and all related plumbing/mechanical functions related to it.

Snow and frozen ground cover would be near the opposite end of the spectrum to human-occupied, running equipment. There is no situation in which a heat source would be white and the snow would also be white. One or the other would be toward the dark end of the spectrum, depending on how the gear is configured. If it is already representing this correctly, great.

Edited by jay35, 03 April 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

I like this post because PGI is in vancouver--a city surrounded on one side by tall mountains and on another side by the pacific.

[Roadbeer]

ambient temp -85c, that's what -140f?

I don't think that's been recorded often using FLIR, so this is pretty much academic isn't it?

Also, this is phase 1, and they've said it's going to be tweaked more, so...

Edited by Roadbeer, 03 April 2013 - 09:36 AM.

[Naelbis]

Roadbeer, on 03 April 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

ambient temp -85c, that's what -140f?

I don't think that's been recorded often using FLIR, so this is pretty much academic isn't it?

Also, this is phase 1, and they've said it's going to be tweaked more, so...

I have used FLIR in temps almost that cold when doing S&R. At those temps EVERY heat source shines like a beacon. But I am willing to wait and see what they eventually tweak thermal to be. I have seen that mechs glow brighter at higher heat levels, they are just difficult to pick out at range given the monochromatic color palate of the new thermal.

[Glythe]

Just bring back improved thermal pilot module as an idea. Doesnt give you more range.... but gives mechs different colors than white. Blues for cold and reds for hot... with everything else being white. Would be a nice module upgrade.

[WVAnonymous]

Quxudica, on 02 April 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

Devs already responded to another thread about this, the vision mode just isn't complete yet. Not all map objects/surfaces have been tagged to show up properly in the new thermal.

Please add the link if you are citing another thread. Thank you.

[jakucha]

One of the devs already responded to this question. Funny how they mentioned the new vision modes aren't the final state and they will be tweaked, isn't it.

[Nightfangs]

Still.... if white, below 0 °C snow looks greyish-white, the IR-vision ist ****** up.

Edited by Nightfangs, 03 April 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[Rippthrough]

You want to know what's funnier?

Look at a mech in the distance on alpine, yes, you can spot it 2km away. Why? Because it renders black against white snow in IR mode.
Yes, that is a mech running at absolute zero.

Great for sniping though - whoops.

And while I'm here, on the maps where there's no snow, the glow from nightvision cuts off at 750 meters, leaving everything beyond that range outlined beautifully.


So, in the attempt to nerf bluevision sniper-warrior online, we've got two modes that work even better for long range sniping and only hurt brawlers.

Edited by Rippthrough, 03 April 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[Dasein]

If it would be realistic then nobody would use night vision because thermal is always better but expensive. And obviously mech with fusion reactor dissipating all this heat to atmosphere should be glowing like a light bulb.





And this so called pre-space tech...

Edited by Dasein, 03 April 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[CnlPepper]

I've got a thread going where I have proposed an alternate and more physically realistic night vision design. I've just posted some mock up images and I'd appreciate any comments or support you may have. It would be a relatively simple shader to implement:

http://mwomercs.com/...om-a-physicist/

Thanks.