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To All The Naysmiths Out There That Hate Base Caps


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#81 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:36 AM

View PostNoobzorz, on 03 April 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Making the most cash possible? What the **** is this stupidity?

The point of an adversarial game is to win. PGI's role in this is to direct the various methods of winning. If you want to pick a big, slow *** mech that is loaded for bear, if you get beat by another 8 man pug team, too ******* bad.

The ONLY, and I mean THE ONLY TIME that capping is cheap or stupid is when you get matched against a four man line squad who peels around the center of the map to cap and rips your lights to shreds as they show up to defend, and that is really a fault with the match maker, not capping.



Oh I'm sorry that the primary fun in this game is building and using your mech, And buying new one's to build and use. For which you need c-bills to buy, and upgrade said mechs.

I'm sorry that PGI made it so that the only way for us to make any real C-bills is to actually fight it out.

And I'm even more sorry that PGI hasn't given a true incentive to "win" outside of getting more c-bills as a "win" bonus.

While you're thinking is not wrong, and yes, it is a competitive multiplayer game where the goal is to win, the problem stems from the fact that winning by cap nets you a much lower ammount of money [and for good reason actually] than for actually sticking and fighting it out.

It awards you this lower amount for 1 good, simple reason, base capping is less risk for a win. 2 lights go off, and hide on the sides of the map, the other 6 bigger mechs go out and fight, those two light mechs go and cap the base while the fighting's going on.

Those 2 light mechs did less work and had less risk to them than those stuck in the fight.

As it sits you are not penalized with Repair and Rearm costs any more [because people complained about it.] Your KDR means nothing, There is literally, no reason NOT to fight it out other than the fact that you personally get an ego boost by "winning"

If you want to "win by cap" please, go play the resource collection mode, leave Assault to those who want to fight it out. Until we get an actual Team Deathmatch-esque mode.

#82 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:50 AM

View PostDiomed, on 05 April 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

This incident is so rare that it is statistically irrelevant. Base caps are cheap and cowardly. You are admitting you can't aim, or at least strongly implying it. When one team does an end-run around the other because they got 4 squirrels while the other team got one or none it is NOT MechWarrior. Its more like MechSissy.

No sir those who base Cap are proving you failed to defend your base. On the two large maps Cap should be slower since it takes a while for most Mechs to slog the distances required.

But a smaller lighter force should not, in fact, slug it out with heavily armed and armored force. That is just stupid. You use the advantage you have, not play into the one your enemy has! :)

#83 Wildman13

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:55 AM

I drive a lot of fast mechs and love to rush to cap so that it disrupts the enemy's focus and forces them to deal with me, in hopes that it will give my team an advantage in numbers at the schwerpunkt. It seems to work well since my incursions are usually responded to by more than one enemy.

#84 ferranis

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:06 AM

Standing in a circle simulator sure is fun.

#85 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:10 AM

View Postferranis, on 05 April 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Standing in a circle simulator sure is fun.

it sure is when the enemy starts crying cause they were to stupid to have a plan to defend their base. Oh the crying and name calling! If I get Capped the player at fault is ME.

#86 Vermaxx

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:40 PM

Base cap is a good distraction/line breaker. It is also a good punishment against the team that absolutely ignores the mechs who ran through/around/past their line and started capping.

Base cap forcing a WIN when a game should DRAW, that is crap. If there are people left on both teams and time runs out, a partially capped base shouldn't win.

#87 Flashback37

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:29 PM

I've never seen a match where time ran out before one team or other won.
Never.

#88 Zylo

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:55 PM

View PostFlashback37, on 05 April 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

I've never seen a match where time ran out before one team or other won.
Never.

It happens less often now but this seemed a bit more common when repair/rearm was in game and the remaining mechs were camping in a safe spot with each side waiting for the other to make a move.

I think the primary reason it doesn't happen now is due to matchmaker not matching weights. I have seen far more of my wins coming as 8-0 since Elo was added and weight matching became a lower priority. I don't lose too often because I'm not against capping when things start to go bad. The average loss for me seems to be 4-8 which tends to happen after half the team runs off and dies in the first few minutes while my group or 2, 3 or 4 is stuck trying to deal with 8 enemies.

#89 Zylo

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:00 PM

View PostJade Kitsune, on 05 April 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

If you want to "win by cap" please, go play the resource collection mode, leave Assault to those who want to fight it out. Until we get an actual Team Deathmatch-esque mode.

There are more than a few of us who always play to win. If the enemy has a significant advantage and the remaining players have a choice of fighting and losing or capping and winning, which do you think they will choose?

I've had matches where everything that could go wrong did go wrong in the fight and it would have been a loss if the remaining players had decided to fight. Instead they chose to cap and win. This is a valid tactic and the enemy team was foolish for even allowing it to happen.

With that being said I prefer winning by killing all 8 enemy mechs, especially when my team doesn't lose even 1 mech.

#90 Taemien

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostFlashback37, on 05 April 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

I've never seen a match where time ran out before one team or other won.
Never.


I've had a draw before.

One mech left on each team, and the enemy mech was in his own base. An Atlas and I was in a light mech, though severely damage. Couldn't get into an angle to get the jump on them and kept trying from different areas. Game ended before either one could finish the other off and it was a draw.

He couldn't leave his base because I'd cap it. But I also wanted to win, so I kept harassing him. Time didn't let either of us get what we wanted.

Anyway back to topic. 12v12 is going to make capping bases alot more important. There is going to be 12 mechs per side on a map and that will bring new challenges. Premade or not, you are not going to want to just do a 24 mech brawl (well the unskilled players will, as they want to throw the game to chance to offset their skill levels). So pinging a base to break up the other team will be a more important tactic.

I know some of you don't like it. But what are you going to do about it? Calling players names won't stop them. PGI won't change it. So your only option is to come fight cappers at your base.

Bring your game on, you'll need it.

#91 PraetorRUS

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:53 PM

View PostNightFallsOnU, on 03 April 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Yes I know that some have become aggro'ed on base caps from back in Close beta but, This game needs base caps in most game modes and this video is a great example of why....


For me the problem is not basecapping, but it's realisation in game.

Cap module should be removed from game and the speed of capping should be very dependant on a mass of mech standing in a square.

#92 Zylo

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:17 PM

View PostPraetorRUS, on 05 April 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:



For me the problem is not basecapping, but it's realisation in game.

Cap module should be removed from game and the speed of capping should be very dependant on a mass of mech standing in a square.

I don't think this would work either as it would just encourage the best combination of speed and mass for base capping groups. The base cap mech choice would probably be the Cicada 3M under this system. Dragon is another possibility though I expect it would be less commonly used.

I think the best option would be basing the cap speed on the number of surviving mechs. If all 8 enemy mechs are alive cap speed should be 1/8 of the current rate per mech on base. As the number of surviving enemy mechs decreases the capping speed should increase. When just a single enemy is left the cap speed should function as it does currently.

Number of enemy mechs alive - Cap speed:
8 - 1/8
7 - 1/4
6 - 3/8
5 - 1/2
4 - 5/8
3 - 3/4
2 - 7/8
1 - full cap speed.

Edited by Zylo, 05 April 2013 - 11:20 PM.


#93 PraetorRUS

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:36 PM

View PostZylo, on 05 April 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

I think the best option would be basing the cap speed on the number of surviving mechs. If all 8 enemy mechs are alive cap speed should be 1/8 of the current rate per mech on base. As the number of surviving enemy mechs decreases the capping speed should increase.


I don't think it's a good idea. My experience in game tells me, that most of the time a surviving mechs in a team currently loosing match are lights.

And most of the games your team just have no time to come back to base to stop some solo spider with cap module from stealing your victory.

#94 Zylo

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:53 PM

View PostPraetorRUS, on 05 April 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:



I don't think it's a good idea. My experience in game tells me, that most of the time a surviving mechs in a team currently loosing match are lights.

And most of the games your team just have no time to come back to base to stop some solo spider with cap module from stealing your victory.

Right, that's what this is supposed to prevent - that solo enemy spider rushing in and trying to cap before any mechs on your team are dead. If that spider only capped at 1/8 the current speed even the slowest Atlas could waddle it's fat *** back to the base in time to stop the cap.

#95 KDECrusader

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:28 AM

View PostNoobzorz, on 03 April 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

I really don't have a problem with base caps. Don't pilot a slow brawler to the middle of nowhere. Seriously, it's an adversarial game where the goal is to win. Playing the objective means defending too.


And that is the reason why i would like a gamemode without caping. I want to fight an enemy, not wait at the base for him. I have seen this so often, that all mechs were fighting each other, the enemy was slowly loosing and then one of their lights decides to run for the cap, while I was busy with the others.
You are right, its about winning, but its mech-WARRIOR to me, not Mech-who caps wins.

And have you ever tried defending the base? Staying around is boring and you are often the only one who thinks about defending.

#96 Magicbullet141

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:30 AM

Perhaps base cap should be disabled until a time limit has been reached

#97 CynicalSaint

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 02:38 AM

Until there is a death match game mode base caps will be a valid strategy, so deal with it...

#98 CynicalSaint

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 02:45 AM

I disagree with those who say that the tonnage on the cap should make a difference... That's like saying a 500lb man can dig faster than a 100lb man can... 2 men no matter their weight will always produce faster results than one "larger" man will... Point invalid and no longer arguable..... IMO.

#99 Zylo

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 02:47 AM

View PostKDECrusader, on 06 April 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:


And that is the reason why i would like a gamemode without caping. I want to fight an enemy, not wait at the base for him. I have seen this so often, that all mechs were fighting each other, the enemy was slowly loosing and then one of their lights decides to run for the cap, while I was busy with the others.
You are right, its about winning, but its mech-WARRIOR to me, not Mech-who caps wins.

And have you ever tried defending the base? Staying around is boring and you are often the only one who thinks about defending.

This problem is caused by matchmaker since the enemy team could have a few lights while your team gets none. Once the enemy team figures out your team has more firepower do you honestly think they are going to try fighting you with a high chance of losing or sneak around and cap with a high chance of winning? The solution to this problem is bringing back weight class matching as the #1 matchmaking priority with Elo rating as #2 priority. If the enemy team gets 2 lights then your team does as well but with the current matchmaker the weight classes often are not matched.

#100 LTGear

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:11 AM

Is it possible ta have an option to play for base caps and for non base caps where we could chat a while while waiting for others to come in? just like in MW3 whoever remembers it? the video was awesome base cap is also awesome but there are times that i don't want base caps. i know there are some just forced to play with base caps. By the way, this statement doesn't mean i hate base cap i love it too just that sometimes i just want WAR!

Edited by LTGear, 06 April 2013 - 05:49 AM.






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