17 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

Now, before I go into a rant on this, I'd like to point out that the accuracy modules reduce the blast radius of both the Airstrikes and Artillery, and understand that the idea was "more focused damage on a single 'mech." I get it.

However, what I do not get is why anyone would ever, ever take these. The blast radius is already so small and damage so light reducing it more would just insure you'd never even hit the broadside of a barn with one.

Unless these accuracy upgrades also cut travel time down by well over 50% - even that would be near worthless - they are a straight up downgrade. You should be upgrading to increase blast radius (and damage should increase along with the radius size so that the average damage taken in the range is similar)! These AOE abilities would be a lot more useful with 2x the range.

Long story short, unless consumables are going through a massive revamp to everything, these upgrades really need to be flipped.

TL/DR: The upgrade modules should be doubling their blast radius, not reducing it. Damage should be kept fairly even throughout the radius regardless of it's expansion. The radius is already nearly too small and I'm sure not taking a module to handicap that more!

EDIT: This was posted outside of Hot Topic Heatsink because it's specifically talking about the Accuracy upgrades, which would be buried in seconds in a discussion over the modules overall.

Also this is not referring to the 15,000 gxp upgrade to Improved Airstrike or Improved Artillery. It's talking only about the Accuracy upgrade modules you can also equip. Just a heads up so I'm not misunderstood.

Edited by Victor Morson, 03 April 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[Profiteer]

I thought exactly the same thing.

It's hard enough to hit anything with the basic impact area; making it smaller just ensures the only mechs you can hit are the ones that are dc'd and standing still (which I guess is a lot at the moment).

The impact area needs to be bigger, and INCREASED by the upgrade, with many more shots falling to fill the area.

Edited by Profiteer, 03 April 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[Artgathan]

The modules decrease the size of the impact area, not the blast radius. It's poorly worded. Equipping the module means your shells land closer together (essentially), increasing the chances that multiple shells will affect the target.

[Profiteer]

Artgathan, on 03 April 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

The modules decrease the size of the impact area, not the blast radius. It's poorly worded. Equipping the module means your shells land closer together (essentially), increasing the chances that multiple shells will affect the target.

Impact area is what I meant sry (edited).

[Victor Morson]

Artgathan, on 03 April 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

The modules decrease the size of the impact area, not the blast radius. It's poorly worded. Equipping the module means your shells land closer together (essentially), increasing the chances that multiple shells will affect the target.

True, the wording could be improved.

While shots landing close together sounds good on paper, it basically insures you won't hit ANYTHING, as it still fires the same number of shells - now with a reduced chance of catching anything in the impact zone.

[SirLANsalot]

I can hit things just fine with arty with and without the upgrade. The airstrike one seems to be fine without it, but the arty one can spread just a little too much so you hit nothing, the upgrade is nice to tighten it up.

Basically you need to get used to the delay that happens, once you do its just like leading any target with a ballistic weapon, just one that dose 100 damage over a <50m radius.

I have used both of them to extreme effectiveness against groups who stand nice in close to each other. Also works to clear off mechs from the tops of ridges or "bunkers" in tourmline.

[NeonKnight]

think of it this way:

In Battletech Table Top, to call in a Arty strike, assuming standard Skills on the Gunner, the chance to hit the actual hex you are targeting you would need to roll an 11 or 12 on 2d6. For each number you miss that roll, means the shell impacts that many hexes away (so if you rolled a total of 8 on 2d6, your shell missed the target hex by 3, and would impact 3 hexes away).

The Upgrade is effectively increasing the gunner skill of the artillery, so instead of needing an 11-12 on 2d6, they would need maybe a 8-12 on 2d6, and thus the impact radius (as stated by others above) would be "tighter".

[Sephlock]

This is why the game needs knockdown.

[Taemien]

Best to use a picture with this community:



The blasts of the shells is in orange, the range in which they drop is in red. On the left is the standard strike. On the right is the 'reduced' upgrade.

As you can see, the shells are hitting closer together, maximizing damage potential on a smaller area. That is what the upgrade does.

[Victor Morson]

NeonKnight, on 03 April 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

think of it this way:

In Battletech Table Top, to call in a Arty strike, assuming standard Skills on the Gunner, the chance to hit the actual hex you are targeting you would need to roll an 11 or 12 on 2d6. For each number you miss that roll, means the shell impacts that many hexes away (so if you rolled a total of 8 on 2d6, your shell missed the target hex by 3, and would impact 3 hexes away).

The Upgrade is effectively increasing the gunner skill of the artillery, so instead of needing an 11-12 on 2d6, they would need maybe a 8-12 on 2d6, and thus the impact radius (as stated by others above) would be "tighter".

That makes sense if the original radius was like 1,000m and this would reduce it to 500m or some such.

When you're taking a radius that's like 200m and making it closer to 120m, that's awful.

Taemien, on 03 April 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Best to use a picture with this community:



The blasts of the shells is in orange, the range in which they drop is in red. On the left is the standard strike. On the right is the 'reduced' upgrade.

As you can see, the shells are hitting closer together, maximizing damage potential on a smaller area. That is what the upgrade does.

But that's the whole point. I see how it works - but trying to catch a 'mech in that tiny impact radius is already close to impossible, any reduction to the overall radius would simply make catching a hostile 'mech even MORE impossible.

That's why the outer circle should get bigger, and filled with a whole lot more orange circles. This should be something to push teams out of position, not "maybe hit 2 mechs" to upgrading to "Possibly hitting 1 mech slightly harder, if they power down and hang out for a while."

Edited by Victor Morson, 03 April 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[Taemien]

Would have to give it go myself, but if its anything like MechCommander, there's a trick to catching the mechs in the blast. Ine MC it was a 12 second incoming time and the last 3 seconds were visible to the enemy.

[Lukoi Banacek]

What Taemien shows is correct and from a real life perspective it's what you want and it's usable in game.

Using the arty strike effectively requires patience and position; it doesn't reward just dropping it on a target and hoping it loiters there for four more seconds to get struck.

Use these things where the terrain or the pace of battle is forcing a lull/chokepoint situation and you'll see them start to work a bit.

Found an obvious, sensible chokepoint on forest colony to try this out on and got great results in multiple matches. Struck multiple back torsos and got the enemy to MOVE haphazardly which worked in our favor as mildly panicked pilots blundered into our direct focused fire. Works quite well in the right places.

Dropping it on targets in the open...you're taking your chances and I don't recommend the 40k cbill investment on that.

[OneManWar]

If you're trying to hit 1 mech with artillery you're doing it wrong.

[Jonathan Paine]

While I agree with op that narrowing the impact field is silly, I hate the current consumables system and want it to die a miserable death. So go ahead, keep making the silly consumables worse.

[Vapor Trail]

NeonKnight, on 03 April 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

think of it this way:

In Battletech Table Top, to call in a Arty strike, assuming standard Skills on the Gunner, the chance to hit the actual hex you are targeting you would need to roll an 11 or 12 on 2d6. For each number you miss that roll, means the shell impacts that many hexes away (so if you rolled a total of 8 on 2d6, your shell missed the target hex by 3, and would impact 3 hexes away).

The Upgrade is effectively increasing the gunner skill of the artillery, so instead of needing an 11-12 on 2d6, they would need maybe a 8-12 on 2d6, and thus the impact radius (as stated by others above) would be "tighter".

Actually, for offboard arty, the scatter radius maxes at 6 hexes (180m from planned point of impact).

On a failure to hit the intended hex, the arty player rolls two dice in succession. The first die determines scatter direction. The second die determines scatter magnitude in hexes.

And for the "Circles" picture. Technically you're both correct and incorrect. From what i understand the shells can land anywhere in the scatter radius... which means they might hit the edge. And hitting the edge means the blast radius of the shell will lap outside the scatter radius of the strike...

However, since the pic is drawn the way it is, and there's no scale or labeling, it could be said that the red circle is the maximum radius that any blast of a shell will reach... and the orange represents actual blasts. That red radius would contract right along with the scatter radius, so the pic works.

Edited by Vapor Trail, 03 April 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[Signal27]

Victor Morson, on 03 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

That makes sense if the original radius was like 1,000m and this would reduce it to 500m or some such.

When you're taking a radius that's like 200m and making it closer to 120m, that's awful.



But that's the whole point. I see how it works - but trying to catch a 'mech in that tiny impact radius is already close to impossible, any reduction to the overall radius would simply make catching a hostile 'mech even MORE impossible.

That's why the outer circle should get bigger, and filled with a whole lot more orange circles. This should be something to push teams out of position, not "maybe hit 2 mechs" to upgrading to "Possibly hitting 1 mech slightly harder, if they power down and hang out for a while."

If a mech is camping out a spot and simply refuses to move, I suggest you toss the smoke canister BEHIND him if you can, so he doesn't see it in time before the artillery rounds start to drop on his head.

[Traigus]

Works great from behind. managed to get 3-4 mechs with at least 1 strike in 3 maps in a row (with adv, smaller circles, and regular airstrikes.

You drop one from the front and they see the smoke.. smart guys scatter. drop it from behind and the smoke is just behind them.. WHAMMO!

Not sure if the damage contributed that much in the end, but it made everyone split up. it needs a loud noise and some shake.

[OneEyed Jack]

Arty isn't about "trying to hit a mech". It's about threatening to hit stuff in the area it drops on, causing them to not want to be in that area. Damage done is just a side benefit.

It's kinda like people still carrying a single LRM launcher, especially 5 or 10. It doesn't really do anything, but the missile warning will probably make them take cover.