1089 replies to this topic

[BlueSanta]

Are you kidding? All those replies you got and that's all? Still a piece of equipment that I will always equip to a mech that can carry it.

ECM is not supposed to affect missile locks.
ECM is not supposed to affect TAG.
ECM shouldn't stack.
ECM shouldn't prevent Streaks from being dumb-fired.
That 20m or whatever window you can target an ECM mech is useless in the battlefield.

However, at least you decided on one change that always should have been in place--ECM does not cut you off from friendlies.

You can do better than this after FIVE MONTHS.

Also, I like the idea of letting every mech equip it for one day, one week, two weeks, and see what happens to your metrics. Bet you would poop yourselves.

Edited by BlueSanta, 03 April 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[warner2]

Royalewithcheese, on 03 April 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

I think it's cute that Paul thinks the PPC counters ECM.

Indeed, I think the PPC effect is cool, and it will disable the ECM long enough for you to see the target designation (e.g. "prime target is Charlie"), so the effect is genuinely useful. It doesn't help LRMs or SRMs.

I don't know, I'm going to think on this, but looks like ECM in it's current form is here to stay. Better to just deal with it?

Edited by warner2, 03 April 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

GODzillaGSPB, on 03 April 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

I agree, you'd normally think that at least the bulky Atlas 7D-DC would be hit by ppc more often, disabling ecm. So...I'll try to remember how often I saw this.

...örhm...

...

I can confirm that when my DDC gets shot by a poptart or pepsistalker or something my first reaction is totally "oh noes, I can be targeted by lurms for the next 4 seconds!"

[Aaren Kai]

ECM should explode like the Gauss Rifle. Poof there goes the internals.

[zhajin]

I think the biggest problem with ecm is it forces you in to a handful of variants, and half of those are pretty bad. I also do not think i want it to be available on everything. not sure of the best solution, but a major part of this game is diversity and with ecm that took a big hit. Throw in the fact that there is no negative to taking ecm (its cost are the same as ams w/ 1 ton), and you get lots of 3l and ddc...

[Deathlike]

hammerreborn, on 03 April 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

The reason for it is that you can aim for the torso part the ECM is in. Right now ECM could be in any torso, making its 3 hp kinda negligible because you first have to find it. Now you know exactly where to shoot to disable it (because it dies nearly as fast as a guass)

Considering hitbox issues with the Raven (the legs non-withstanding, because it is far easier to leg them these days), getting to hit the torso section you want is not that easy. That could be said with ANY light mech.

[FupDup]

My fixes:

1. An ECM in counter mode should counter every enemy ECM around it, not just one. This is to remove the "arms race" aspect of spamming as much ECM as you can to win.

2. The user of ECM should not be able to get missile locks while they are in disrupt mode (it's powerful enough to disrupt you if it can disrupt 8 enemy battlemechs). This means they would have to risk making themselves vulnerable to enemy lock-on missiles if they want to use their own lock-on missiles (risk versus reward).


EDIT: Somebody misinterpreted #2 later in this thread. The whole "it's strong enough to jam the user" thing is not supposed to be actual realism, but rather just classic BT space magic. Sort of like why coilguns generate nearly no heat, why an AC/20 has less range than an AC/10, and so on.

Edited by FupDup, 03 April 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[whiteknight]

Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed here. I found it really heartening when a feedback thread was opened, and there was a LOT of feedback, most of it positive, most of it talking about how bent/broken ECM was and suggesting a lot of possible changes.

And now we as a community get this response, and the impression I get from this post is 'We listened, and changed nothing, because we were happy with where ECM was the whole time, it was the rest of the game that was busted'

Bryan Ekman and Russ Bullock spoke recently at PAX East, and one of the statements they made that struck me most profoundly was how at PGI it was a philosophy to challenge assumptions, to find ways to make things work. So now I find myself challenging the assumption that ECM 'works'

I personally think the basic premise of ECM and its intended functions is going the right direction, but its too much of a good thing. The sensor range reduction is too much, the weapon lockout is too much, the total cloaking effect for the carrier mech is too much, the fact the primary counter to ECM is more ECM is too much, the PPC/ECM effect is meaningless because it takes too long to lock missiles and LRMs especially travel too slowly. The TAG range increase? all this has done is made TAG a lighter, more effective alternative to mounting Artemis.

What are the changes being made amidst all the feedback? Weapons can now hit their targets? Thats not a fix for ECM, thats basic game function. ECM being given a hard point? Again, not really a fix, because its not going to stop ECM being mounted, at best it gives an aimpoint on the slowest of ECM carrying mechs.

A simple challenge for PGI's internal test team, or hey, your beta community, a simple test of ECM would be to make it available to all mechs, look at your metrics, see how many mechs DON'T choose to mount it, see how long LRMs and Streak SRMs last in that environment.

I'm not saying scrap ECM, I'm saying listen to your community and dial it back, I'm challenging the assumption by the community that you don't listen, that the choices made are capricious and without care for the input from the community.

Please PGI, challenge your assumptions, listen to the feedback a lot of people went to a lot of trouble to provide.

Edited by whiteknight, 03 April 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Patch Notes did say that you can finally shut an ECM-Mech's StreakSRMs if you hit them with PPCs while your own ECM is set to Disrupt Mode. That means ECM is now better able to counter ECM. "Yay" for those who equip ECM. For those of us who don't operate with ECM, the PPC Fix in Tuesday's Patch does not afford us additional anti-ECM capacity, and the Command Chair posting does not discuss additional Anti-ECM capacities in the near future.. It does seem like each Team will, indeed, need to bring ECM in order to counter ECM.

Also, it seems like the only "downside" to equipping ECM will be the fact that you give yourself away when you sneak up within 180meters on the enemy Team when they have ECM present. Having yourself given-away in exchange for all the gains that ECM offers is not exactly the kind of "downside" the typical system of MechWarrior/BattleTech Checks and Balances would require, in my opinion.

All-in-all, I think I might have to shelf my Jenners and buy Ravens, now. I've been thinking of it for a while, waiting for the Command Chair posting... but I see no sign of ECM being anything but positive for the Team that Harbors it, and it will be nigh "Standard Equipment" for the Competitive Light Mech once Community Warfare launches.

That's just my opinion... but you can always drop ECM in favor of Jump Jets. That, right there, is that ACTUAL balancing feature of ECM. You can't use ECM with Jump Jets because there are no Mechs that can co-equip them. EDIT - Forgot the Spider, sorry, I was thinking only in terms of 35 tons. You can use a Spider with JJ and ECM at the price of many, many tons.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 03 April 2013 - 01:54 PM.

[shintakie]

AlexEss, on 03 April 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

I'd suggest with laser for now.. actually lasers will most likley always be the best choice. Beyond that it is all about practise practise practise.

At that point you're probably goin to kill them anyway. Every Raven pilot that can afford it (almost all) uses an XL engine. In most cases you'll kill a mech long before you can destroy a single piece of equipment on the mech, with the exception of AC/20s or people dumb enough to use MG's.

[Phaesphoros]

Quote

ECM brought a whole new level of strategy and skill to the battlefield and is something that we've been striving to achieve instead of flat plane, long range combat. It brought the need to be aware of your surroundings and assist team mates in a way that previous MechWarrior titles didn't have.

I agree it brings a whole new level of strategy, but why has it to be only one item? Why can't its effects be split up into several items? Each individual item wouldn't be as "OP" that way ECM currently "is" (it is very powerful).

[Ransack]

Heat guys, heat. Put heat on it.

Thanks for the update I guess

[Infernus1986]

I think these ECM changes are for the better, its not like ecm is some mystical force field that people make it out to be.
please don't do something dumb and put the hard point in a leg tho

[Corbon Zackery]

I have a founders Jenner with Advanced Sensors module and it does nothing to help with ECM. Nor can I lock on to one with streaks since I have 4 s pulse and 2 streak launchers on the mech.

[MasterBLB]

Yeah,I wish you luck Paul when you'll pilot Jenner D and dogfight against Raven 3L to shoot ECM location...having only 4 lasers versus 3 lasers AND streaks,I can see how well you'll be able to hit same location being poked by missiles.

Sorry guys,but you are morons if you think that any kind of device disabling so important in fighting lights weapon type like streaks is balanced.

Edited by MasterBLB, 03 April 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[Tennex]

you sould probably read the feedback paul. these players play the game much more than you.

try to remember your priority should be making a game that people want to play. features that players think are fair


Like the PPC change. this nerf effects only part of the problem. a good nerf attacks the issue at a fundamental level, at the core of the issue. as a result, a good nerf adresses the issue at all fronts.

the hardpoint restriction will nerf the Atlas. but who can say they are able to accurately pinpoint the right torso of a raven. and if people were that good, youd be better off blowing out the XL engine, in whch case the 3L would not be such a big problem like it is.

Edited by Tennex, 04 April 2013 - 04:33 AM.

[Featherwood]

Paul, that is bull****. You did nothing for 5 months, as it was already mentioned. 2 points taken from community's feedback is obsolete nonsense:

• you fix not SSRM+ECM deadliest combo in the game, but free 1,5 tons to RVN-3L and COM-2D, bravo, ******
  
• hit-mechanics adjustment is a true direction, but it should not be linked to ECM problem as you do it
  
• PPC as countermeasure? It's like to use flamer against mosquitoes.

Ok, now back to work, start to read here, that post explains why
BAP module must be a real counter-measure to ECM.
Read it, Paul, and fix damned ECM!

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Kerensky]

ecm should be equippable on any mech. I'm tired of the 3L being king of the lights

[Royalewithcheese]

On the subject of the 3-L, Garth has been dropping hints that that particular variant may be nerfed.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 03 April 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[Deathlike]

Tennex, on 03 April 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

curious to see hardpoint limit.

it is still the best thing for 1.5 tons and 2 criticals. and is still used offensively rather than as a scout tool. ECM mechs should be scouts.

Critical Health is the worst way to balance an item.

Think AMS in its current form. Does the hardpoint matter?