313 replies to this topic

[Monkeystador]

Bahhh where is the counter that BAP gets a bonus for targeting ECM equipped mechs.

[DocBach]

If the players that never post or interact with the vocal community or PGI about anything, how does PGI know they don't want ECM changed?

[Corvus Antaka]

the body part location thing is stupid! unless its going into arms...but even then. all ravens and commandos mount an XL engine, putting the ECM there won't mean squat.

the biggest issue remains missiles/radar/ECM interactions.

my D-DC has a 4.0 KDR and a 2.9 W/L ratio - pugging/some pre-mades.

my RS - 2.0 KDR - 0.56 W/L ratio.

oh but ECM has NOTHING to do with this. despite the fact my RS hits like a frieght train and can often get me 3-4 kills a match. the lack of ECM hurts my team THAT much.

PGI has a vision, I understand. ECM is important for this vision - understandable. But current game design/radar/missiles is severyl flawed. the LRM void of 8 mans is now in all matches. pop-tarting and ridge sniping standoffs are the name of the game.

mech3 LRMS.

mech4 radar.

pop-tarts..fixed.

ECM..fixed.

BAP..useful.

Oh..and does anyone use NARC? seriously?

[Voivode]

ECM is fine (a little off with light mechs but not necessarily because of ECM itself) however they should do three things

1) Alter SSRM in some way to bring a negative aspect with the positive (similar to the UAC5 chance to jam) so that the weapon system balances. Locking and tracking are fine, but there has to be a disadvantage to bringing them too, otherwise only SSRM light mechs will be viable against other lights, and obviously that means only ECM capable light mechs. Not having to aim is a tremendous advantage in a fight between two mechs going 150kph.

2) Switch the max engine rating for the Raven 2X and 3L variants. That way the Raven 4X will have unique hardpoints with ballistics available along with jumpjets, the 3L will have superior defense with the ECM, and the 2X can act as a fast striker. The Raven variants are poorly balanced with each other because the 3L was given the best speed and the best defense. Change things up so the other ravens get some much needed love.

3) Don't take anything from the DDC Atlas, but rather give something to the other Atlas' that makes them enticing so there is more of a real debate about which Atlas to bring. Sure, the DDC offers ECM, but the other Atlas' offer 'X', where 'X' can be an additional hardpoint or perhaps an additional ton of armor beyond what the DDC can carry.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

add an option
it did not need to be changed
and
all they had to do is make sure the matchmaker had an even number of ecm on all teams.

[hammerreborn]

Shadowsword8, on 04 April 2013 - 12:43 AM, said:

It would be simple and effective. So PGI would never do it.

It's not effective. Macro streaks to J basically and you get to fire streaks slightly slower than current while remaining immunity to streaks.

Point at target and hit J.
Streaks attempt to fire, can't because no lock, ECM turned off.

Lock achieved, hit J
Streaks attempt to fire, succeed, ECM turned on, breaking targets lock.

Repeat until target dead or you die.

Not sure why people keep parroting this as some sort of solution.

Edited by hammerreborn, 04 April 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[Shadowsword8]

Then add a short cooldown on EC mode change, it wouldn't be hard to do.

[Bobdolemite]

I still believe at current ECM is not the win button everyone thinks it is. The changes that they outlined including the advanced sensor range getting locks on ECM at a greater distance will bring more balance to the ECM suite.

Lets be honest people some of the nerfs you guys talk about would make ECM pointless (see AS and Arty for proof), I think that if they fix hit detection and work on ELO so that there are fewer mismatches concerning ECM that the problems people are experiencing will be less severe.

i think their proposed changes are a very balanced and logical thought process on how to try to make ECM work as they intended. It was devoid of the usual grand sweeping nerfs that only end up causing them to rollback and hotfix, this should be something everyone can live with, but then again some people were never be happy.

(on a side note the "doesnt interfere with friendly indicators" was a must change, this bordered on griefing and caused me many times to wade into enemy fire)

Edited by Bobdolemite, 04 April 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[DocBach]

Bobdolemite, on 04 April 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

I still believe at current ECM is not the win button everyone thinks it is. The changes that they outlined including the advanced sensor range getting locks on ECM at a greater distance will bring more balance to the ECM suite.

It's not the end all, be all - what it is an incredibly unbalanced 1.5 ton piece of equipment which negates radar, communications, guided weapons, all with no downsides at all, with illogical counters which take skill, generate heat, and weigh much more than the system they counter.

[Deathlike]

Bobdolemite, on 04 April 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

I still believe at current ECM is not the win button everyone thinks it is. The changes that they outlined including the advanced sensor range getting locks on ECM at a greater distance will bring more balance to the ECM suite.

It's not an I win button, it's more of a "I'm more likely to win" button.

Advanced sensor range only provides a minimal gain.. I forget the distance, but it's like only 100m or so. That's still limited to short-mid range. This even considers BAP stacking.

Quote

Lets be honest people some of the nerfs you guys talk about would make ECM pointless (see AS and Arty for proof), I think that if they fix hit detection and work on ELO so that there are fewer mismatches concerning ECM that the problems people are experiencing will be less severe.

I haven't actually heard many complaints that PPC/Gauss/projectiles are impossible to hurt ECM mechs with. It's kinda difficult, but it's not exactly optimal either.

Quote

i think their proposed changes are a very balanced and logical thought process on how to try to make ECM work as they intended. It was devoid of the usual grand sweeping nerfs that only end up causing them to rollback and hotfix, this should be something everyone can live with, but then again some people were never be happy.

There's so much that wasn't analyzed and/or ignored. At least they have to logically counter major points that have been reiterated in the feedback before that is even considered "fair and logical"... because they have countered none of the various points that have come up.

[Belorion]

Lord Perversor, on 04 April 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

Then i dare PGi to *disable* ECM for a week, and let's see how well it fare in the game.

I already lived that and it was STREAKS STREAKS EVERYWHERE!!. ECm was made broken and OP to counter another broken and OP weapon system wich is the Streak aim.

Since the ECM appearance the complaints about streaks are almost gone, but i can tell you wait until the Clan tech appear and we start to get SStreak 6, if that happens just tomorrow, the Whineage about the Trollmando will made the forums explode.

Aside from steak and lrm locks, ecm doesn't really do a whole lot.

I think they are changing streaks aren't they? Giving them a dumb fire option, and making them harder to use.

The whole reasons Ravens are so effective right now, is that a Raven with ecm can target others with steaks and not be targeted themselves. Without that they aren't that much different from Spiders. Commandos have this too but then have a weakness against two Ravens. Which is why I have switched my 2d's weapons from streaks to regular srms.

Edited by Belorion, 04 April 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[wwiiogre]

My opinion of the PGI response to ECM and what I think it really means is:

Insert picture of man flipping off the MWO Community.

When the missile nerf is lifted we will once again see ECM Warrior Online.

All 8 v 8 and upcoming 12 v 12 will once again be a sea of DDC Atlas and light ECM mechs. Role Warfare at its finest. Combined with the vision mode nerfs to 750 meters welcome back to the team with the most ECM wins.

Chris

[Deathlike]

Thontor, on 04 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

The hardpoint is a great idea... But it'll nerf the DDC more than it will nerf the other lighter ECM mechs.

It's not a great idea. See AMS? It has a hardpoint. Do people actively try to shoot AMS off? No. They ignore it.

Even though ECM is a higher priority, this is primarily irrelevant on a light mech. If you are already exposed in the area you have ECM in, the light mech is very likely going to die. It is also unlikely to get pinpoint accuracy on a light mech on a consistent basis. You hope to leg it and/or core its CT or sides because of the commonality of the XL engine on them.

On the DC, I expect ECM to be placed on the missile torso. It's just a natural fit. You almost always blow up the ballistic torso due to the threat of what's usually there.

[jakucha]

Deathlike, on 04 April 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

It's not a great idea. See AMS? It has a hardpoint. Do people actively try to shoot AMS off? No. They ignore it.

That's because AMS is particularly useless until they unbug missiles. When ECM can be seen people will definitely target it, at least on bigger mechs.

[Deathlike]

jakucha, on 04 April 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

That's because AMS is particularly useless until they unbug missiles. When ECM can be seen people will definitely target it, at least on bigger mechs.

I ignored AMS when there was LRMaggeddon and when it wasn't.

It was never a priority for me to shoot at. If I got rid of it in combat, yay for me? It was irrelevant, because the target was normally near death.

For an Atlas, it would be easy, because most mechs strip its side torsos (like the Stalker), so it's just "there" to be shot off.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 April 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[Livewyr]

Belorion, on 04 April 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

They have access to greater numbers than we have. Ecm may not be the great advantage some people believe it is.

Yeah, it really has no effect on you, as long as you don't use anything that locks..

Technically, not using something does make it not an issue. Does your finger hurt? Cut it off, you still have 4 other digits on that hand...

[TruePoindexter]

yashmack, on 03 April 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

I thought ECM was fine, the changes theyre making sound great too though

This.

[Teralitha]

yashmack, on 03 April 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

I thought ECM was fine, the changes theyre making sound great too though

Why do you think ECM is fine? Id like someone who says this to give a very detailed and lengthy logical explanation why you think ECM is fine. Otherwise your opinions are worthless. Make it constructive and actually have a point that debunks all the reasons why everyone else thinks its a bad thing. What is the logic behind the reason.

You see all these guys in the feedback forum giving detailed explanations on why ECM is bad for the game that are many paragraphs long? Yea... lets see you do that.

Edited by Teralitha, 04 April 2013 - 10:47 AM.

[Teralitha]

Cryll Ankiseth, on 03 April 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Having ECM in a mountable spot makes sense, and would probably please the lot of players who cry about it being OP.

But not covering your friendlies position on a map? What? That defeats the purpose of having an ECM on an Atlas.

If all is did was protect from lock on missles, that would be just fine. Its the radar cloaking that upsets the balance.

[ThePieMaker]

In addition to the upcoming changes, I feel that PPC's need to counter ECM way more than just 4 seconds per hit.
The time that ECM is disabled should scale exponentially along with number of hits taken.
I.E.
First hit= ECM disabled for 3-5 seconds.
Second hit= ECM disabled for 9-15 seconds.
Third hit= ECM disabled for 30-35 seconds(up to a max of 35 seconds so a fourth hit wouldn't increase it further).