313 replies to this topic

[FarEYE]

ECM is one thing that makes this game interesting and gives it depth. Only by making a scenario that requires stealth will this feature truly become what it is. With that people will start to spend more time playing and less time trolling the Forums.

[PappySmurf]

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my streak2 and other missiles are almost useless with all the powerful ECM mechs on every team blocking them.

[General Taskeen]

FarEYE, on 09 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

ECM is one thing that makes this game interesting and gives it depth. Only by making a scenario that requires stealth will this feature truly become what it is. With that people will start to spend more time playing and less time trolling the Forums.

I don't think you know what trolling means. A rather overused term. Posting idea's and balance suggestions is not "trolling."

There are plenty of suggestions, good ones, for ECM, and they have nothing to do with removing it from the game.

[DocBach]

FarEYE, on 09 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

ECM is one thing that makes this game interesting and gives it depth. Only by making a scenario that requires stealth will this feature truly become what it is. With that people will start to spend more time playing and less time trolling the Forums.

ECM isn't stealth, its the opposite of stealth - in general most ECM tactics ignore fundamentals of stealth such as not being seen. ECM is a cheap radar and missile immunity.

[Kenyon Burguess]

im fine with how ecm works, my issue with the current system is that its limited to certain mechs and variations. either give it everyone or at least give it to all of the 35 tons or less light mechs and their variations and remove it from anything larger.

[Kristov Kerensky]

StalaggtIKE, on 09 April 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Logic fail. Most of the maps hardly cover miles and miles out. It's even funnier considering that guided missiles have the range capacity for 2+miles. The game consist of a confined space, obviously all things must adhere to this limitation on order to maintain balance..., you know the big picture.

I guess this is a foreign concept.

Actually, I know exactly why the made the ranges on the weapons and the sizes the maps the way they did, so they'd fit on the standard 6x8 gaming table that was in use at the time for simulation games. Give the real range of a gauss rifle and try to put that on a map with the standard hex sizes and you'd need a very very large gaming space, bigger then a house could actually hold. Nothing more and nothing less, marketing purposes, can't sell the product if it requires buying all new gear AND a new house to play it.

They still totally reversed how ECM works though, simply because they didn't understand how it works, not the first nor the only such thing they got totally wrong in the BTech game. The guys at FASA simply didn't have ANY education on many of the things they used in the game, but so what, it's a GAME! Which is all well and fine when it's a TT setting and you can physically SEE the enemy hiding over there under ECM with your eyeballs, doesn't matter if your MECH can't locate them, you can see them. It's called metagaming now, back then it was just how things worked

That doesn't mean that PGI can't go and fix some of those so blatantly obvious mistakes like ECM, and I'm all for them doing just that, it does make the game more fun to me when things that never worked as they should in TT do in the video game.

[Umbra8]

So... they're taking out an effect the actual TT guardian ECM had (losing communications with friendlies within an enemy ECM bubble) but leaving in the magic allied-team invisibility cloak and the inability to lock missiles from range, none of which were part of the guardian (citation: http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite).

Seriously PGI, just use TT. It's balanced for its crits and tonnage, still adds value to the game and would be useful to carry. Even after these 'nerfs' it's still the best 1.5 ton equipment in the game, and if it still cloaks your team it's still going to define the metagame. Why not give yourself room to add stealth armour later as a module add-on to guardian, so you could reward play but also pose a passive limit (limited number of module slots) on some of the more OP aspects of this equipment?

Oh, and PPCs as an effective counter? If I have hit a Raven 3L or a Spider with my PPC volley his ECM isn't down from some emp effect, it's down because his torso is gone. Let's not pretend that has any relevance unless you're shooting a DDC, because it doesn't.

[Solis Obscuri]

Umbra8, on 09 April 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Oh, and PPCs as an effective counter? If I have hit a Raven 3L or a Spider with my PPC volley his ECM isn't down from some emp effect, it's down because his torso is gone. Let's not pretend that has any relevance unless you're shooting a DDC, because it doesn't.

Even with the D-DC it doesn't since the ECM field will be back up several seconds before any LRMs get there.

[DocBach]

Umbra8, on 09 April 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

So... they're taking out an effect the actual TT guardian ECM had (losing communications with friendlies within an enemy ECM bubble) but leaving in the magic allied-team invisibility cloak and the inability to lock missiles from range, none of which were part of the guardian (citation: http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite).

Table top guardian did in fact have an allied-team cloak; however the defensive effects against sensors was nowhere near as potent -- it shielded information such as chassis, damage, and weapons loadout. However, ECM did not affect communications at all, unless you count target sharing via C3 to be communications -- we do not have C3 implemented, all 'Mechs can share target information for indirect fire without ECM, and ECM is not suppose to affect this target sharing at all, fluff explained that standard 'Mech communications were hardened against electronic countermeasures like Guardian and unaffected by its presence.

[Forestal]

Solis Obscuri, on 09 April 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Even with the D-DC it doesn't since the ECM field will be back up several seconds before any LRMs get there.

Yep, the 4-second disabling of ECM by PPC hits is just about enough time for an LRM mech to get a lock-on AND LOSE LOCK AGAIN.

Edited by Forestal, 09 April 2013 - 03:23 PM.

[Tennex]

"

• ECM should not cut out friendly signatures on the battlefield. Friendly Mechs should always be identifiable and not obscure team play."

thats actuallly going to be a buff.

they arn't making it so ECM is no longer aoe.
it will still be AoE.

they are making it so that teamates can see otherteamates who have ECM "friendly mechs should always be identifiable and not obscure team play"

[stemnin]

Sums it up for me

[Product9]

Don't battlemechs have the capability of identifying teammates by markings on the hull? That is, a sort of conformal IFF. I think I read this somewhere.

So, teammates in line of sight should never be obscured by enemy ECM. We should always be able to tell who our teammates are if we can see them.

Also, I'm pretty sure PPC doesn't cancel ECM that is in counter. I know it should, but based on my experiences piloting a CDA-3M with ERPPC I don't think this is the case.

Unless firing a PPC negates my own ECM, in which case it would be working perfectly.

[Valaska]

Thontor, on 09 April 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

good thing the PPC's cooldown is less than 4 seconds so you can keep the ECM disabled indefinitely if they stay in line of sight. and if they aren't in line of sight to hit with a PPC anymore, you would've lost the lock anyway, even with no ECM involved.

Good thing nobodies going to stand still that long and that its such a broken and contrived counter nobody even bothers.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Valaska, on 12 April 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Good thing nobodies going to stand still that long and that its such a broken and contrived

and magic counter

Funny thing is ppl defend TT to the death here but the devs throw it out whenever its convenient and they dont seem to notice that.

[General Taskeen]

Thontor, on 09 April 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

good thing the PPC's cooldown is less than 4 seconds so you can keep the ECM disabled indefinitely if they stay in line of sight. and if they aren't in line of sight to hit with a PPC anymore, you would've lost the lock anyway, even with no ECM involved.

So one should have to equip a counter to counter? That's poor logic and poor balance functionality for F2P no matter which way you try to spin it, and boy do you people spin a lot. But I see the Herp Derps Stockholm Syndrome's of Mech Warrior still don't get it.

Basically with your PPC LRM counter combo logic, one should equip a PPC to fire their LRMs. What about a trial that doesn't have PPC's? Why shouldn't their LRM just be able to fire at an ECM Mech without PPC, as it did in TT and every Mech game ever? Or what if someone wants to try a close to stock mode 'balanced' Mech with just lasers and LRMs, do they pray someone on their team has a stock or equipped counter? Why should the player be punished by hard counters at all and not be able to use half the weapons they equip?

That is failure of logic and balance functionality for a F2P game. And I will not be held hostage by PGI's failure of logic.

Edited by General Taskeen, 12 April 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Zynithra Akutenshi]

There are two kinds of people who hate ECM.

1. Blind people
2. LRM boaters who think they're useful from 900+ meters away

that said, it doesn't really need fixing. Unless you want to cry about your streakapult not being effective within an ecm bubble, that is.

[DocBach]

CutterWolf had an outstanding idea to where instead of ECM blocking all locks, it just blocks locks by hitting the R key - if PGI added a "target enemy under reticule" option and made ECM protected 'Mechs targetable by manual targeting, so you had to be observant and aware to locate the enemy visually, then manually target to engage with guided weapons.

[Livewyr]

Zynithra Akutenshi, on 12 April 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

There are two kinds of people who hate ECM.

1. Blind people
2. LRM boaters who think they're useful from 900+ meters away

that said, it doesn't really need fixing. Unless you want to cry about your streakapult not being effective within an ecm bubble, that is.

This is a fun game: Let me try

There are three kinds of people who love ECM.

1. Oblivious Brawlers
2. Slow mechs ignorant of the meaning of "Cover"
3. Light mechs (who also like using streaks)

Wasn't that fun...

Edited by Livewyr, 12 April 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Zynithra Akutenshi]

Livewyr, on 12 April 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

This is a fun game: Let me try

There are three kinds of people who love ECM.

1. Oblivious Brawlers
2. Slow mechs ignorant of the meaning of "Cover"
3. Light mechs (who also like using streaks)

Wasn't that fun...

Funny thing is, you're right!

And then there's everyone with a clue.

Edited by Zynithra Akutenshi, 12 April 2013 - 09:11 AM.