149 replies to this topic

[Max Liao]

One weapon in the BattleTech universe that severely underwhelmed, unless you were duck hunting VTOLs, was the AC/2. For years I tried to find a way to make the weapon useful - yeah, yeah, ultra/rotary autocannons, gauss rifles and all that jazz, I play 3025 era pretty much exclusively - to no avail. I like the idea of a long range plinker, but it actually has to be able to 'plink.'

With minimum range, ridiculous weight to damage ratio, and very few maps ever allowing 24 unimpeded 'hexes' I just couldn't find a way to make this weapon useful. To me an LRM 5 (or three of them) is a much better way to go - indirect fire alone makes them more useful.

In your opinion, how could MWO make the AC/2 weapon useful, or do you think that's going to be the least/never used option in the 'Mech Lab?

[Alexander Fury]

I'll have to agree with you on this one. The A/C2 is probably the most useless weapon in the game. Granted it has long range, but what use is being able to reach out and touch someone if the only thing they feel is a few paint chips flying off their mech. Even the Mauler which mounts 4 of these weapons really has a better chance with its LRM's than pecking away at the enemy with these pea-shooters. So whats the point? I think the dev way back in the day wanted to add a smaller calibre weapon that would round out the lists for balistics. Ever notice no one ever says ''Don't worry! I have a Vulcan!'' There is a reason for that! the 3025 Vulcan, the 3050 upgrade actually made it a half decent light medium.

[LordDeathStrike]

on a stock mauler you use 4 of these, which outside of table top, do like 8 dmg every 2 seconds. theyre long range so you chip off the armor with them till you hit lrm range, which really takes off the armor, then finish them off with your large lasers.

once the armor is opened up a rapid fire weapon like the ac 2 is a crit hit machine for setting off ammo and breaking stuff.

[Jordan Kell]

The only thing I have ever fielded with an AC/2 was the AC/2 carrier. While not really inflicting much damage, getting 5 (maybe only 4, brain not working) shots at getting a head/ct possible crit with little to no chance of getting any response to those shots paid off sometimes.

[trycksh0t]

I'll definitely say the AC/2 is a niche weapon, but it's still marginally useful in TT against lighter elements like VTOLS, light armor and what-have-you.

As for MW:O, on a fast enough chassis, I could actually see it working pretty well on flankers. Even an AC/2 to the rear armor is going to hurt, it's got the range you may be able to avoid detection and rely on spotting assistance for targeting.

Ohhhh.....the -3M Cicada may have just become my new best friend if I can get two Autocannons on it.

Edited by trycksh0t, 03 June 2012 - 12:48 AM.

[El Death Smurf]

Well in a multiplayer environment, they don’t leave a trail through the air leading back to you. It’s obvious where lasers are coming from and less but still obvious where the stream of missiles come from, and this renders ECM less effective.
I’m just saying you can stay completely off the radar (literally and visually) at long distances and scrape paint for longer periods of time.
They aren’t countered by AMS.
Other than that... no clue.
If the game gives them low velocity/lag time for impact they are just rubbish.
If you can easily hit a heavy or assault at extreme ranges (I don’t think anything out ranges AC2 in the current tech tree right?) then they have a role.
But yes. They are crap.
We’ll see with ammo, recycle time, accuracy/velocity, and so forth

Edited by El Death Smurf, 03 June 2012 - 12:48 AM.

[Kifferson von doober]

Jordan Kell, on 03 June 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

The only thing I have ever fielded with an AC/2 was the AC/2 carrier. While not really inflicting much damage, getting 5 (maybe only 4, brain not working) shots at getting a head/ct possible crit with little to no chance of getting any response to those shots paid off sometimes.

Used to use the pike tank alot, teamed with partisans. that had 3 ac 2 s as main armament!

[LordDeathStrike]

trycksh0t, on 03 June 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

I'll definitely say the AC/2 is a niche weapon, but it's still marginally useful in TT against lighter elements like VTOLS, light armor and what-have-you.

As for MW:O, on a fast enough chassis, I could actually see it working pretty well on flankers. Even an AC/2 to the rear armor is going to hurt, it's got the range you may be able to avoid detection and rely on spotting assistance for targeting.

Ohhhh.....the -3M Cicada may have just become my new best friend if I can get two Autocannons on it.

ild go with a single ultra ac 5 on the cicada since it has a hard point that can mount it. fast, decently armored, and really good long range plinker for ninja backstabs. by the time you free up the tonnage for 2 ac 2s you wouldnt have much armor speed or ammo weight even with endosteel ff and an xl engine for tonnage.

[trycksh0t]

LordDeathStrike, on 03 June 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

ild go with a single ultra ac 5 on the cicada since it has a hard point that can mount it. fast, decently armored, and really good long range plinker for ninja backstabs. by the time you free up the tonnage for 2 ac 2s you wouldnt have much armor speed or ammo weight even with endosteel ff and an xl engine for tonnage.

Yep, had to go endo, ff, and XL to fit it. A measly 4.5 tons of armor, but I don't plan on really needing it. Movement is 8/12, same as before, so pretty frelling quick. Twin AC/2s with a ton of ammunition each, and a medium laser. I'm looking at battlefield longevity, the Ultra 5 is, most likely, going to eat through ammo. With a pair of ACs carrying 45 rounds each, I can (hopefully) stay out there and punch things in the back of the head a lot longer. Plus an extra 120m range doesn't hurt.

[Adrienne Vorton]

i think the most useful purpose for an ac/2 is sniping from ranges, others can´t hit you, "preparing" the enemy for the mainbattle, driving them to cover, keep them from advancing forward maybe... there are many possibilities, but - there is no doubt - they are not made for an infight^^

[levyne]

Well most things are taken from TT, so the AC2 might've just been meant for non-'Mech targets and got lumped in with other, more relevent AC's.

Maybe similar to the Clan invasion we'll be seeing supporting tank/infantry fighting alongside each house, making all of the lighter weapons much more relevant. I'd love to have NPC-controlled infantry and vehicles fighting beside (and against) me, would add a ton of variety and depth.

[Thorqemada]

In a pure Mech to Mech combat is no place for an AC/2 imho.
In a Combined Arms combat it may have some surprising usability.

[Gauss]

In MPBT:Solaris and 3025, we use to use the AC/2s on the Blackjacks to rock your opponent to screw with their aim. It was moderately effective. You had to alternate fire each one about once a second. So, if it causes your aim to rock in MWO, that'll be the biggest reason for the AC/2s.

[LordDeathStrike]

and remember, sure its only 2 dmg, but its not over 10 seconds like in TT. ild wager a cbill or 2billion that itll have a fire rate of 2 dmg every 2 seconds, or 1 dps. thats the trade off for the excessive weight and crits. ac 20 10 crits, heavy, 20 dmg every 4 seconds 5 dps, or was it 5 seconds, 4 dps. either way itll tear stuff up. ac 10 10 dmg every 3 or 4 seconds, ac 5 5 dmg every 3 seconds, ac 2 2 dmg every 2 seconds but super long range compared to the rest. G rifle, 15 dmg, but the refire is like 7.5 seconds, and its shorter range then the ac 2, and takes up egrigious crits and tons.

something like this give the ammo shots per ton, will make the ac 2 viable as a long range softening up weapon and a internal structure crit hammer for people that lose armor and run away, but not fast enough to get out of ac2 range.

[Hawks]

Maybe on paper it's not the most devastatingly powerful weapon in the BT universe, but IIRC it's the longest range weapon we'll have (at least initially) and that could give it a useful psychological component: it can put your opponent under pressure. Anyone ever play any of the 'Total War' series of games? If your enemy has archers that can outrange your archers, he can hit you with impunity. Even if they're not causing a lot of damage, it takes a LOT of self-control to just sit there being plinked at while you wait for them to run out of ammunition, and being totally unable to respond.

I think if my force has mechs that mount AC2s, and yours doesn't, then that just might give me another way to potentially lure ill-disciplined elements of your force away from your main body, isolate them, and destroy them piecemeal.

[ElliottTarson]

I somewhat disagree, at least as far as the VG's are concerned. In MW2, combined with two pulse med lasers, a few machine guns, and a heavy hitter like a PPC or Gauss, you can do some massive damage. Use the pulse/Gauss/PPC to shred armor and get your opponent off-guard, then snipe out the cockpit from 100-200 meters. Underhanded, I know, but effective.

Hawks, on 03 June 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Maybe on paper it's not the most devastatingly powerful weapon in the BT universe, but IIRC it's the longest range weapon we'll have (at least initially) and that could give it a useful psychological component: it can put your opponent under pressure. Anyone ever play any of the 'Total War' series of games? If your enemy has archers that can outrange your archers, he can hit you with impunity. Even if they're not causing a lot of damage, it takes a LOT of self-control to just sit there being plinked at while you wait for them to run out of ammunition, and being totally unable to respond.

I think if my force has mechs that mount AC2s, and yours doesn't, then that just might give me another way to potentially lure ill-disciplined elements of your force away from your main body, isolate them, and destroy them piecemeal.

Excellent way of looking at it. A constant pinging may not take off much armor, but it's sure as heck gonna get your opponent mad. Anger leads to the Dark Side....

[Woodstock]

LordDeathStrike, on 03 June 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

on a stock mauler you use 4 of these, which outside of table top, do like 8 dmg every 2 seconds. theyre long range so you chip off the armor with them till you hit lrm range, which really takes off the armor, then finish them off with your large lasers.

once the armor is opened up a rapid fire weapon like the ac 2 is a crit hit machine for setting off ammo and breaking stuff.

At best the Ultra AC/2

But you will never actually kill anything

[Elkarlo]

When the Hexfield is Big enough.
Take a Squad Warrior with you... let them start into very HIGH ... and then... the constant pinging will shred lots of Mechs into pieces... you only have to keep them out of the range of the Big Boys...

[wanderer]

AC/2's can be remarkable irritant weapons, but they're really at their best against softer targets than a 'Mech. In the TT, they're really handy for VTOLs to ping people at range, and the constant long-range accurate damage is nice for disabling tanks with motive hits and swatting aerospace into having to avoid crashing into the ground from a control loss.

That being said, I'm going to amuse myself at some point with an AC/2 replacing the MG's and one ML on the Catapult-K2 chassis, and large lasers for the PPC's for the arms. I figure the plinkplinkplink ought to mess with some people's minds nicely, and LL/LL/ML is quite enough close in firepower to get people shot up regardless.

[NinjaCool]

Individually the damage the AC/2s deal is insignificant but together they might whittle away enemy armor at long range. It will be interesting too see when the default Mauler arrives, if 4x AC/2's will be worth it.