43 replies to this topic

[Cart]

English:
I think, you are a little to "flexible" in the MechLab at the moment! I mean, we're all piloting normal Inner Sphere Mechs! No Omnis! An esspecially no Clan-Omnis!
I don't want back to Stock-Loadouts, because I would miss to build on my Mechs...but I think it is too free at the moment...just think of perversions like AC/20-Ravens, Splat-Cats, Atlas LRM-Boats...

My Idea is, to split the hardpoint-groups up in more sub-groups.
For example:
For energy-harpoints:

• Light energy (Small-Laser, Small-Pulse-Laser, TAG)
  
• Medium energy (Medium-Laser, Medium-Pulse-Laser)
  
• Heavy energy (Large-Pulse-Laser, (ER-)Large-Laser, (ER-)PPC)

For ballistic-hardpoints:

• Light ballistic (Machine-Gun, AC/2)
  
• Medium ballistic (AC/5, Ultra-AC/5)
  
• Heavy ballistics (AC/10, LBX/10, AC/20, Gauss)

And for missle-hardpoints maybe:

• Light LRM (LRM5, 10)
  
• Heavy LRM (LRM15, 20)
  
• SRM

That's just the first Idea an sure needs some tuning, but for the moment, I just want to know, if other people here are thinking the same or similar...or if I am the only one...

Edit:
What I also could imagine is, to have chooseble Hardpoints:
For Example in the Catapult K2 Arms: You would have a Heavy Hardpoint for either Energy or Ballistic.

Deutsch:

Ich denke, man ist im MechLab im Moment etwas zu "flexibel". Ich meine, wir steuern hier alle Mechs aus der Inneren Sphäre! Keine Omni-Mechs! Und besonders keine Clan-Omnis!
Ich möchte jetzt nicht zurück zu reinen Stock-Varianten, weil ich das rumgeschraube an meinen Mechs auch vermissen würde, aber ich denke man ist im Moment zu frei in seinen Möglichkeiten...man denke nur an perversionen wie AK/20-Ravens, SRM-Pulte, und Atlas LRM-Boote...

Meine Idee ist, die jetzigen Hardpoint-Gruppen noch weiter in Untergruppen aufzuteilen.
Zum Beispiel:
Für Energie-Harpoints:

• Leichter Energie-Hardpoint (Small-Laser, Small-Pulse-Laser, TAG)
  
• Mittlerer Energie-Hardpoint (Medium-Laser, Medium-Pulse-Laser)
  
• Schwerer Energie-Hardpoint (Large-Pulse-Laser, (ER-)Large-Laser, (ER-)PPC)

Für Ballistische-Hardpoints:

• Leichter Ballistik-Hardpoint (Machine-Gun, AC/2)
  
• Mittlerer Ballistik-Hardpoint (AC/5, Ultra-AC/5)
  
• Schwerer Ballistik-Hardpoint (AC/10, LBX/10, AC/20, Gauss)

Und für Raketen vielleicht:

• Leichte LRMs (LRM5, 10)
  
• Schwere LRMs (LRM15, 20)
  
• SRMs

Das ist jetzt nur die erste Idee und müsste sicher noch genauer ausgearbeitet werden, aber im Moment möcht ich einfach nur mal wissen, ob dass andere genauso sehen oder öhnlich, ob ob ich der Einzige mit dieser Meinung bin.

Änderung:
Was ich mir auch vorstellen könnte, wären Hardpoint zum auswählen:
Z.B. beim Catapult K2 in den Armen jeweils ein schweren Hardpoint für entweder Energie- oder Ballistk-Waffen.

Edited by Cart, 04 April 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Using some rules that are from the New Solaris rules CatLab had a upgrade contest. I upgraded my Lance Mate's King Crab-005 to the King Crab-005b (yes, I won the contest... along with 5-6 other players)

This system gives us the ability to mod our Mechs but to also keep it limited.

[skullman86]

I think I would be in favor of adding some additional limitations to equipment if it could shift the main focus away from alpha strike builds and make efficient/niche builds more desirable. Alphas are important, but there are a handful of mechs that can do it better than others, and it becomes a problem when those mechs are deemed the only competitive variants for that chassis/class.

PGI probably wont be changing the system though. Rules like this have been suggested numerous times since closed beta and the fact that they recently added ballistic meshes for the K2 shows where they stand on giving weapon systems "levels".

Edited by skullman86, 03 April 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Hardpoint sub-catagories sounds like a fun idea improving the meta.

[Cart]

@Thontor

Sounds a little like MW4...

[Noobzorz]

A neat idea that would crank the variation through the roof, but I'm concerned that this would add too many layers of balance and gameplay complexity. I think the mechlab is in pretty good shape, but if they could find a way to make an idea like this work, it would be very cool.

The key is that it should actually add more meaningful choices to the game (by making some of the dominated variants viable), rather than fewer.

[von Pilsner]

No thanks, I like the mechlab system we have now.

[SirLANsalot]

Pulled this from the other thread about this.

Quote

Alpha mechs have one massive drawback. Rate of Fire. All the high damage guns/builds, have very very long reload times, and usually very high heat to go with it. Case in point, SRM6, long 4 sec reload, scatter shots, and its heat is quite high when packing more then 2. PPC's, were always hot, and getting over 4 puts you as a one shot wonder. Dual AC20 is the only one without a heat drawback, which is fine, still a 4sec reload but its drawback is the massive tonnage and size of the gun.

DPS mechs do eat these other mechs up for lunch, but a DPS mech needs extremely good gunnery skills to make it work. So most people get lazy and don't do it, but those who do.....get well rewarded.

Cataphract 4X, slowest mech of the Catas, but one with the highest DPS the game has ever seen (6x AC2 jager doesn't get this high). 4 AC5 (9.7 DPS alone) and 2 ML (makes the mech 6.4 overall DPS). It never overheats unless its a REALLY long engagement on Torumaline or Caustic, and thats only if you keep tapping those ML's. This mech in essence fires an AC20 every 1.7 seconds (convergence not withholding) meaning you can get about 2 1/2 shots (all it 3) off before anyone with an AC20 or SRM6's can get there second shot off. Land those 3 shots before they land there second, and there DEAD, or missing a very important arm or torso.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5834e7b03b19bfe

There is the build for all to see, but you MUST...MUST be good with ballistics to get it to work, it is also a good mech to LEARN them on. As you can just chain-fire the AC5's and get the best animech MG ever.







Limiting the hardpoints isn't the answer to this issue. Its heat multipliers, if a mech is meant to use only 1 of XX weapon, but you can get more then that on a mech, then the 2nd gun will generate 2 or even 4 times the heat it normally would. This would greatly DISCOURAGE boating and "alpha" mechs. The Spat cat would overheat and shut down because it would have 4 more SRM6's (and SRM's in genral) then a mech is ment to use (aka 2 SRM's of any mix). Autocannons balance themselves on this "issue" as the wight of them limits them enough, and the ligher ones are not a part of the issue (AC2 AC5 both aren't "alpha" guns now are they?) Beams would fall under this as well, but only applying to PPC's and Large Lasers (normal for a mech would be 2). Now is this perfect? No, as certain mechs do come stock with more then a said gun (Nova cat has 3 PPC if I remember). These mechs could have a "hidden bonus" to them that reduces the penalty or increases the number of XX gun before the penalty kicks in. So like the Nova Cat's limiter would be at 3 instead of 2, so anyone placing more then 3 PPC"s will find that 4th one to run quite hot.

[Franchi]

Poll needs a HELL NO! option.

[Trauglodyte]

I've been screaming about this since I joined Open Beta. The only problem, as it has been mentioned in this thread and others, is that PGI is happy with the various player made concepts. So, they may be less inclined to limiting what they're happy seeing. Plus, you've got to add in the work necessary for implementing this. For the most part, gaming companies like to limit the amount of additional work when they're happy with what is going on. And it would especially damning for all of the people that disagree with the option knowing that they'd have to rebuild or buy other chassis. That last part is the real clinker when it comes to a pretty massive design change.

Personally, I'm in favor of them going the extra mile and doing some level of limitations in what is acceptable and what isn't. I mean, it bothers me that I break these rules. I love a PPC paired with Md Lasers on my Cicadas but that isn't stock.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 03 April 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

All of those weird fun little builds are what keep a lot of people playing in a world without CW. Take that away and you are only going to hurt the game.

Edited by crabcakes66, 03 April 2013 - 12:44 PM.

[Wales Grey]

TBH, the way mechs work ought be transfigured into a form more appropriate for a video game, instead of a transpostition of tabletop rules onto a digital framework.

[Kristov Kerensky]

If you want the abomination that was MW4's Mechlab, please feel free to play that game.

[jay35]

Absolutely no to stricter rules. It's already too strict in some cases.

[RG Notch]

Oh my God! I have never seen this idea before, except for like once a month every month since closed beta. Not happening so you can poll as much as you like, suggest as much as you like, no dev ever even comments because it's not ever going to happen.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Thontor, on 03 April 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Limiting the size of the weapons you can equip isn't what made mw4's mech lab an abomination. There are a lot of things that were wrong with mw4's mech lab, but that wasn't one of them.

Actually, yes it was one of the big problems since it made it impossible to build STOCK Mech variants in more then a few of the Mechs in the game, both IS and Clan.

[Mister Blastman]

I want the opposite. I want less rules and less restrictions (as long as they stick to BT rules).

Edited by Mister Blastman, 03 April 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[Alkerae]

I will agree that there's something a little, off, about the variant system, in that for most cases you can actually make a build that's both good and applies to every single variant, essencially making it just a simple grind and money sink to reach elite status. But that's as far as I'm going to agree with this I think... I actually do have a preferred variant for just about every single mech I've ever touched, the CPLT C1 and the Raven X4 for two examples because the simple inclusion of ability to equip jumpjets, weapon variety and adaptability, and maybe a TAG can make or break a mech for me sometimes... and as a result, for the raven, I have to figure out how to live without two missile hardpoints... which is kind of painful. When I get the CPLT A1(?) I'll lose my laser hardpoints and have to try something else for a bit, possibly teaching me a different stratagy and improving myself in the process.

And then there's the Centurion, wherein the two laser hardpoints in the center torso are simply iconic and the whole theme of the mech (zombie!!!), so there isn't much they're able to change between variants.

On the other hand, I'm currently running around in an X2 using two large lasers, which dodges the point of variants because the X2 is the Raven with four laser hardpoints. Why yes, I could be lighter and more effective if I wanted 4 medium lasers, but I abuse the long range too much. So apparently, sense all 3 ravens have 2 laser hardpoints, I'm going to be using the same weapon loadout for all 3 of them, and that's kind of sad... but trying to stop me from doing this is simply going to be too much trouble and heartache (for both dev and player) than it's worth.

[RG Notch]

Thontor, on 03 April 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I actually agree in regards to the OP's idea... I like my idea of limited weapon type specific critical slots, in addition to the current hardpoint system, better.

Well then you probably liked the hundred or so other threads with the exact same idea that have cropped up and been totally ignored by the dev team. Maybe one of the next hundred will warrant a response. Keep hope alive, it's only been mentioned since closed beta with absolutely no change what so ever.

[Cart]

IF it is that way, that the DEVs are ignoring us, our opinion an suggestions...then: Why the hell are you even here in the Forum?

We are all Beta-Testers and as these, are volunteer to help develop the game! Sure the DEVs just cannot react on any suggestion....just because: Whatever they change, someone will always be whining!

Sorry...but I had to say this...