4 replies to this topic

[Hylius]

I noticed the note about multiple lances in the creative update. I realize this is likely mainly for 12v12 play, but it doesn't change one simple fact: no one uses the battlegrid. No one.

PUG match? Let's assume the standard player knows and understands all of the icons and everything. Let's even assume they even attempt to work together with their teammates. They have no use for the battlegrid. There's no guarantee the Commander knows what they're doing. Nothing encourages a player to follow the Commander's orders aside from "look shiney on the map". Why should I, as a random player on a team, follow the orders of someone I don't know with no guarantee that anyone else will do it?

Organized play? Don't make me laugh. I have a voice server to talk to. I don't need to mark on the map "move up to the cliff." I say it. Mark the position of spotted enemies? I can call out a grid location or a landmarker and everyone on my team hears, comprehends, and moves far faster than making some icon on a grid. Most players are also familiar enough with a map that they don't even need to pop it up to get an overview of the layout before making a decision. You know where your allies are. It's useless.

And yet there seems to be an attempt to make the commander and battlegrid functions important with this latest push. I know there's a lot of calls for making command consoles required for advanced functions, but I'm going to ignore those for now and focus on a few basics that would improve its viability in a PUG match and may give it a use in organized play even.

1) Make the commander slot mean something.

Right now it's usually just taken 1/50 matches I'm in by a guy who either thinks they know what they're doing (in my experience, most of these people don't) or just likes screwing around with the map. And why not? There's no consequence for a bad commander taking it. There's also no reward for a good one to make the effort. Give the commander a Cbill bonus/deduction based on the battle outcome. While this will likely initially lead to a grab of the commander slot for bonuses, the deductions of a commander gone wrong should weed out people (it would be nice if some requirement was in place to keep people from using it that don't know what they're doing too. Say, need at least 100 matches, or invest in a skill, need the Command Console, something).

Make the bonuses and deductions actually mean something. For example, a bonus for friendly 'Mechs alive, for match victory, points captured in a Conquest fight, etc. Assuming the Commander actually commands, and does so well, he or she deserves a reward, quiaff? And if someone is good at commanding, don't you want to encourage them to keep commanding? New players can learn a lot just from listening to a person who knows what they're doing. A good commander brings organization, and organization makes random matches feel a LOT more immersive and fun than the usual feeling of "me and 7 other random people are fighting 8 random people and doing our own thing."

That said, a bad commander should also be deducted for their actions. As a commander, it is your job to win the battle and do so in the most efficient manner. If you fail, you're penalized. Not only does this make sense, it should keep people who don't know what they're doing from hogging the command slot on the off chance they'll get a bonus for doing nothing. A rotten leader should be hit in the wallet at the least for leading his troops to their death, neglecting defense of the base, etc.

2) Give people a reason to follow the Commander's orders.

Right now I have 0 incentive to follow a designated commander. As I said before, it's a volunteer position, so I don't know if the guy knows what he's doing. And I've no clue if the rest of my team is going to follow him. They may be thinking the same thing as me. Or they may not understand why the guy is talking in yellow text and what that icon means. Either way, the chances of someone following the orders are not good. So let's solve both of these.

For the first, to know whether or not the guy knows what he's doing, give him a commander rating. Even if it's something as simple as wins/losses as a commander viewable from the player overlay, give me something to tell me whether this guy is trustable. Yes, commanders can only work with what they have, and yes, crap happens, but if you have a 20-80 win-loss ratio as a commander, I don't think that's luck. That tells me you don't know what you're doing, either as a pilot or a commander, and I probably shouldn't heed your orders. On the other side, if you have an 80-20 win-loss ratio while commanding, chances are you know what's up. Sure, I'll trust you. Commanding is always about trust and knowing the guy in charge has a plan of some type. Help me build that trust by showing me how good he is.

Now, how do we encourage players to follow orders? Simple. Give them a slight bonus for following them. A small (very small) Cbill and exp bonus for doing what you're told. Icon on the map says "go here", you're within a certain radius of the spot. Congratulations, 15 exp and 2,000 C-bills for you. And all you had to do was point your 'Mech in that direction and not die on the way there. Obviously there would need to be a cooldown period/limit to prevent abuse on both parties' sides, but the point is the structure. If nothing else, a player in the game understands when he or she is being rewarded. If you reward them for following orders, they'll follow them. Suddenly the rag-tag bunch of pubbies are working together (or at least not spread out from heck to breakfast, which in itself can boost winrates by a huge margin in PUG games). Suddenly, instead of 8 random 'Mechs, I'm facing an actual fighting force.

3) Give players the ability to interact in a "commanding" role without bringing up the map.

Bringing up the map takes time. It blocks your view. It can get you killed. You don't have time in a firefight to bring up the map, find where you are, find where you want to mark something, and do the annotations. Even ignoring how it doesn't work very often, or you may shoot the guy in front of you in the back, it's just not feasible at most points beyond the 30 second mark of the match. So let us do things without bringing up the map.

The idea is to have a similar ability as the airstrike/artillery consumable. Point and hit a button for LOS markings. If it's not LOS, chances are you have the time and ability to bring up your map and mark it. But if it is LOS, bringing up the map either takes too long or gets you killed. Marking sighted enemies? Do you really want to bring up the map while you can see them? They probably see you. And they just might have the range to hit you while you're walking in a straight line because your map is up. Marking a rally point? Chances are you can already see it, and by the time you mark it you're already there. Or you miss a turn and wander out into the open, or into a wall.

So let's mark things with where our crosshairs are pointing. Bring up a menu much like many games use for voice commands (could be either assigned buttons or a radial menu). Here's one for every icon that could be on the map. And more! Wouldn't you love to have someone, ANYONE, be able to put a marker over an enemy as a signal to concentrate fire? Impossible with a menu, and a single keyboard shortcut is a waste. But a menu with other command options? Fits perfectly. Requesting artillery strikes (assuming they become worth it)? Point and click.

This final one would even help in organized play. While most commanding is done quickly and easily over voice, there are many times I want to just say "there, where I'm looking." This feature would give me a chance to do that. I mainly pilot lights, so this comes up a lot. I spot something, but as soon as I do I need to start moving so I don't end up dead. I'm spending a lot of time concentrating on staying alive, delaying accurate reports to my allies. Maybe I'm alone here, but while I'm swerving my Jenner to avoid Gauss fire I find it difficult to relay that "I see two Gaussapults in Echo Five" (can you tell how long ago this was? We still had Gaussapults!). It would be much easier to quickly hit a button before I start evading and shout out "Two Gaussapults here!" And you know what? This is entirely possible with multiple lance commander + company commander support upcoming. IF I can avoid using the Battlegrid while I'm busy trying to stay alive. The rest of my team, who isn't dodging incoming fire, can see it easily on their compass/maps and know what's going on.

Of course, there are a lot of things that need improving when it comes to the Battlegrid. Advance features would be nice, and the Command Console needs a use that the Commander/Battlegrid system seems designed for. But it doesn't matter if the above aren't improved (commander encouragement, player encouragement, and usability). You can let everyone be a commander. You can make the map have 20 Nav points. But they won't ever be used if the above aren't resolved in some manner.

[Durant Carlyle]

The devs said way back when that there will be rewards for following the Commander's orders and achieving the objectives the Commander sets. I'm assuming that means C-Bills and/or XP. They haven't mentioned anything about it lately though, like most stuff.

[A Man In A Can]

Personally, could see the Command Console being useful if it was the ONLY thing allowing you to access the battlegrid (unless there are other things down the road which the devs plan for it to do... ). Kind of like the advanced zoom module. When you equip it, you press a button to activate the effect. In this case equipping the Command Console allows you to press B (or whatever you set it to) in order to activate the Battlegrid. If you don't have the Command Console, you don't have the option of accessing the Battlegrid, taking command and issuing orders.

Simple. Effective. Makes sense. And requires very little extra effort and thought.

Why am I bringing this up now? The Battlemaster has four out of seven potential variants available by 3050 that come stock with a Command Console.

Edited by CYBRN4CR, 27 June 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Veranova]

For me I think the solution is in rewards for following orders,

And a team/lance vote on whether the commander can take over command.
When someone tries to take command the whole team gets to vote, some communication would obviously be important as ever to convince people you have a brain attached.
I also agree about some kind of stats to guide the teams decisions.

I just see the problem right now, as being first come first served, and no-one getting it thrown up on their face that there is a commander. Even with the added sounds it's easy to miss.
I was really hoping for Betty announcing "New order's received" along with a clear indication on the minimap of what the order is. But instead we get a beep and updated icons.

Oh well, it's still a WIP.

[Bhael Fire]

I think the Battlegrid was their solution to make up for the fact that there's no integrated VOIP.

Integrated VOIP would largely make the grid a handy tool rather than a makeshift jerry-rigged bandaid.