160 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

Abivard, on 05 April 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

get rid of the raven 3l end of all kinds of problems, who the heck is wanting to have the raven's babies so bad they will screw up the game to keep it in?

This is quite probably the most ignorant thing I've read on the topic yet.

It shows that you have absolutely NO clue why the 3L is in the state it's in, what the role of the 3L actually has, and why it is currently the whipping post for the perceived problems with ECM.

I laugh in your general direction.

[DocBach]

I love it. Because I don't like a terribly implemented system with illogical checks and balances that's driven the majority of my friends away from this game, it means we couldn't "adapt."

Guess what, dude? I'm in a military gaming group. Adapting is what we do. We've adapted in real combat in real life. Situational awareness is something I live my LIFE by.

It isn't that we couldn't adapt, we adapted just fine. We just find that the gameplay roles we are forced into playing because of 1.5 tons of equipment were not FUN.

And according to one of the largest polls on these forums, we are not the minority.

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[Roadbeer]

Rofl, on 05 April 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Completely, laughably, terrible at reading comprehension. Go back, reread his whole post, and make a better response. I'm ashamed Roadbeer. I expect better than this of you. Stop acting like a Vassago!

Ok, did that, still see a lot of QQ. So my opinion remains.
Goes with the rest of the argument of ECM is OP! ok,well, why is that? Because it's GOD MODE, ok, so is there anything in IW other than it?

See my other post in this thread about lasers being OP.
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2192199

Edited by Roadbeer, 05 April 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Krondor]

HammerForge, on 05 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

One on one, I would agree with that statement, but with how missles were being fired around, everyone was required to have AMS to survive and create a dome of protection. That much AMS meant that the casual LRM was pointless and that you had to boat LRMs, this all happened before ECM hit. LRM5s went the way of the dodo quite quickly because of these issues.

The difference is that, to have a very effective AMS shield, the vast majority of your team had to have AMS, and you had to stick very close together, and even then it didn't stop 100% of the missiles. AMS also has limited ammunition. Since ECM went in I have never, ever run out of AMS ammo. My last few builds I don't even bother putting AMS on anymore.

ECM, on the other hand, can be carried by one single mech, shields your entire team with 100% effectiveness, ALL THE TIME.

It is VASTLY more powerful than AMS.

[Rhent]

The main reason ECM was overpowered was that LRM's when they could actually hit a target actually did moderate damage. Now with LRM's being arguably the absolutely worst waste of tonnage in the game, ECM is balanced. ECM is really only good for countering Streaks and that is it.

The other reason ECM was overpowered was due to blue vision going out to 1500M+ on zoom allowing people to use their eyeballs to see Stealthers coming in to wipe them. Now however with blue vision gone and heat vision limited to 750M, the advantage of ECM being in the game for stealth sneak ups is all but gone. You can do it now w/o ECM pretty easy.

So overall, ECM is pointless in the game unless the opponent mech has streaks. I love seeing mechs with ECM because I boat SRM's, LL's or PPC's and they just wasted 1 1/2 tons.

I like how utterly useless ECM has become, thanks PGI!

[Hashashiyyin]

Accused, on 04 April 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

ECM is almost where it needs to be.

ECM isn't effective against ballistics or lasers. Meaning only those mechs which are hardpoint dependent on missiles are really affected.

RocketmanZero, on 04 April 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

When ECM first came out I think it was perceived as OP because not many people new how to deal with it . . .

However, even with the added PPC effects on ECM (which is a good thing) I think the biggest change is that the hive-mind/community has adapted and gotten used to dealing with ECM

This.

It was different, it only affects missiles in a major way, players adapated, it's where it should be. I find battling Lights with ECM a pain, but in a good challenging way rather than a frustrating or OP or broken way.

Both playing with it or against it, it's working well, to my mind.

[DocBach]

Thontor, on 05 April 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

That poll isn't really relevant anymore, since it is about ECM before the incoming nerfs. Even in that poll, the "no" votes are barely the majority. And those numbers could very well change.

327 people said ECM had made the game more fun or much more fun;

616 people said ECM had made the game less fun or much less fun, with an edge leaning towards much less fun.

I wouldn't call almost twice as many people saying ECM made the game less fun barely a majority.

The numbers will probably change, because most of the no voters I know have moved on to other games already.

Hashashiyyin, on 05 April 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

This.

It was different, it only affects missiles in a major way, players adapated, it's where it should be. I find battling Lights with ECM a pain, but in a good challenging way rather than a frustrating or OP or broken way.

Both playing with it or against it, it's working well, to my mind.

Players adapted by cleaving anything but direct fire builds from the roster of effective 'Mechs, essentially ruining the whole role warfare aspect of the game we were promised thanks to 1.5 tons of equipment.

Rhent, on 05 April 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

The main reason ECM was overpowered was that LRM's when they could actually hit a target actually did moderate damage. Now with LRM's being arguably the absolutely worst waste of tonnage in the game, ECM is balanced. ECM is really only good for countering Streaks and that is it.

Actually, LRM's are now balanced, ECM is completely out of whack, and completely locking out LRM's just makes them worthless to take. Might as well just delete the Catapult model from the game files since it has no place in this MechWarrior anymore.

[Roadbeer]

DocBach, on 05 April 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

327 people said ECM had made the game more fun or much more fun;

616 people said ECM had made the game less fun or much less fun, with an edge leaning towards much less fun.

Ok, that's a pretty small sampling, even for the forum population. And the question of more fun/ less fun isn't something that I would even vote in because it has no bearing one way or the other on my enjoyment of the game.

YMMV

Edited by Roadbeer, 05 April 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[Rhent]

DocBach, on 05 April 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

327 people said ECM had made the game more fun or much more fun;

616 people said ECM had made the game less fun or much less fun, with an edge leaning towards much less fun.

I wouldn't call almost twice as many people saying ECM made the game less fun barely a majority.

The numbers will probably change, because most of the no voters I know have moved on to other games already.



Players adapted by cleaving anything but direct fire builds from the roster of effective 'Mechs, essentially ruining the whole role warfare aspect of the game we were promised thanks to 1.5 tons of equipment.



Actually, LRM's are now balanced, ECM is completely out of whack, and completely locking out LRM's just makes them worthless to take. Might as well just delete the Catapult model from the game files since it has no place in this MechWarrior anymore.

With LRM's being the absolute worst weapon in the game, ECM has half a role, Streaks. The only point to run ECM now is for Lights fighting other Lights. ECM is frankly a waste of a tonnage. A fast light with SRM 6's with restatement will destroy a streaker if its faster w/ JJ's.

[Krondor]

Hashashiyyin, on 05 April 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

This.

It was different, it only affects missiles in a major way, players adapated, it's where it should be. I find battling Lights with ECM a pain, but in a good challenging way rather than a frustrating or OP or broken way.

Both playing with it or against it, it's working well, to my mind.

"only effects missiles in a major way", another way of saying "makes them a complete waist of tonnage to even carry"?

Not broken, and yet it makes a complete category of weapon system useless, has completely eliminated one of the dynamics from the game, and for absolutely no downside to carrying it.

Edited by Krondor, 05 April 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Krondor, on 05 April 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

"only effects missiles in a major way", another way of saying "makes them a complete waist of tonnage to even carry"?

Not broken, and yet it makes a complete category of weapon system useless, has completely eliminated one of the dynamics from the game, and for absolutely no downside to carrying it.

Weird, before they nerfed the damage, the sky was dark with LRMs, and yet, ECM was operating EXACTLY as it is now.

[DocBach]

Roadbeer, on 05 April 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Ok, that's a pretty small sampling, even for the forum population. And the question of more fun/ less fun isn't something that I would even vote in because it has no bearing one way or the other on my enjoyment of the game.

YMMV

For the size of this forum, it is one of the largest polls people have voted on. 192 people shared your sentiments and said ECM does not affect their game play one way or another. Even if you lumped their apathy towards ECM in the support of ECM column, the people who believe the game is less fun outnumber them.

[shabowie]

Why haven't mods shut this stupid thread down? This should have been asked in ECM feedback thread.

[Roadbeer]

DocBach, on 05 April 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

For the size of this forum, it is one of the largest polls people have voted on. 192 people shared your sentiments and said ECM does not affect their game play one way or another. Even if you lumped their apathy towards ECM in the support of ECM column, the people who believe the game is less fun outnumber them.

I don't disagree with that, but that's a snap-shot without the big picture of what else was going on in the game at the time. What was the state of LRMs? What was the state of the lagshield/hitbox on the RVN? What were (insert random factor here) that had other implications on the gamestate?

ECM is the boogyman right now and any slight change in almost anything can turn something from OP to useless in the drop of a hat.

[Mystere]

DocBach, on 05 April 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

I love it. Because I don't like a terribly implemented system with illogical checks and balances that's driven the majority of my friends away from this game, it means we couldn't "adapt."

Let me ask you a straight question: Are you one of those who "continued on to cry like little babies"? Because if you were not, then I wasn't referring to you.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Thontor, on 05 April 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

It is not a Yes and No poll though, there is a third option.

The "no" votes are only 54% of the total votes, that is all that matters... And 54% is "barely a majority"

54% is more than enough that you'd want to exact changes on a Free to Play game.

here is the thing, lets say the sample is indicative of the game as a whole.

That means you have 50% of your player base, that is a lot less likely to shell out money to you.

Given this is a free to play game, and their monetary based offerings are poor at best, does it make fiscal sense (lets just ignore game play balance) to make changes to ECM?

Keeping in mind a lot of people do not want it totally removed from the game, and most of the logical posters are even advocating keeping all of the abilities of ECM but separating them out into different items and modules.

Think about that, from a fiscal standpoint.

Edit: And for reference, I have not spent money for a while due to issues like this. And I have not logged in since the last patch. And I only logged in very sparingly in March. So I am speaking with my wallet and my play time. I am not being a hypocrite.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 05 April 2013 - 10:19 AM.

[DocBach]

Fixing ECM requires more than just changing stats on the ECM. It requires an overhaul of the Information Warfare pillar, namely Narc and Beagle to make you want to take ECM to block their effects, rather than using it solely as a immunity shield from missiles.

That is my biggest problem with ECM. We were promised a deep, rich, and immersive Information Warfare aspect to this game, and instead of recieving that, we were handed ECM and a system that revolves around just bringing more ECM or PPC's (- how did they become part of information gathering??) than the other guy.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Thontor, on 05 April 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

They are making changes

You and I both know it's no where near what was being advocated by the group that doesn't like ECM.

Go read the thread, I've read both ECM threads heavily. I know people's sides before hand. It may have been enough for 3 or 4 people at most.

Everyone else is still completely split on the subject.

[Commander Kobold]

I hate ECM, but now that missiles are worthless it doesn't bother me as much (probably since I haven't been playing though)

[Roadbeer]

DocBach, on 05 April 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

That is my biggest problem with ECM. We were promised a deep, rich, and immersive Information Warfare aspect to this game, and instead of recieving that, we were handed ECM and a system that revolves around just bringing more ECM or PPC's (- how did they become part of information gathering??) than the other guy.

I was promised a persistent, rich galaxy where fighting for a house effects the state of the battle lines.

CURSES! THIS GAME BEING LAUNCHED WITHOUT THAT IN PLACE!

Oh, wait, game's not done yet... silly me.

Edited by Roadbeer, 05 April 2013 - 10:27 AM.