73 replies to this topic

[OneEyed Jack]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 April 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Light mechs ARE viable.

In their intended role ofbsciut, and harraser. What they aren't anymore is the untouchable king of the hill, able to run into a pack of Assault Mechs at will. 1 v 1, a light mech teeing off against a Heavy or Assault, should lose, about 8 out of 10 times. The only times Lights should be a true threat to the big boys, is in packs. Or when TAGing them for support fire. The past 6 plus months of Lights obsoleting virtually everything is over.

if the game boils down to two largely undamaged mechs, an Atlas a Commando, the only way that Commando should win is by fulfilling its role and leading the slow mech on a nice chase, then doubling back and capping.

The reason you have seen Lights dip in use is they are no longer easy mode under awesome kill them all mechs. This is a GOOD thing.

That's how it should be, but in reality, if the Light pilot is any good, the Assault is probably a free kill. I'm all for removing the artificial speed cap, allowing for the truly fast mechs to play to their strengths, but I firmly believe that they need to increase turn speeds at low speeds when they do.

Durant Carlyle, on 05 April 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

The introduction of MASC might make things interesting, but only if the netcode-forced speed cap is lifted. In which case, the Spider (183.6 kph with role-based 340 maximum engine, without Speed Tweak) would be very close to the Flea's speed, depending on how they implement MASC. And the Spider can run that fast all day, unlike the MASC-enhanced Flea.

You realize that engine limits and the speed cap are different things, right? Removing the speed cap in no way implies they'd increase max engine sizes, which they would have to do before a Spider could ever go that fast.

[Timuroslav]

I don't agree with the whole the more damage the more useful you are.
Base capping/distracting/baiting/pulling other mechs from the main fighting group is a valid argument for Light Mechs.

Yes, knockdown does need to implemented, and eventually it will. BUT NOT TO THE DEGREE it was introduced. How many games do you play where your ally heartlessly steps on and shaves off armor on your legs because they're not aware of their surroundings?
Triple that and imagine a Commando being tripped at least twice everytime a match begins that's how bad it was.
The Tripping system needs to go both ways though depending on how the leg is hit, mid-air both the atlas and the hunchback fall. Standing the Atlas doesn't move and the running Hunchback stumbles and falls.

My statement: There needs to be More Mech Xp rewards for spotting for Artillery Mechs. As of now, people rate teammates usefulness based on Combat damage, which is not always fair to the Pilot who was leading the charge in an Assault or a Light Mech that was searching and spotting.

Edited by Timuroslav, 05 April 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Jman5, on 05 April 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

The biggest problem facing lights are the players not the mech or gameplay.

Base capturing ability gives your team a huge advantage over a team of full assaults/heavies. Yet enemies and allies alike scream like banshees anytime someone dares disrupt their sniper-war. "Go back and defend my base? ARE YOU MAD?!"

Methinks you misunderstand.

Nobody really cares so much if you cap, we just want a chance to actually... you know... shoot at the bad guys a bit, first. That's why a common suggestion is a wait period before capping becomes an option. It allows it to be an option without turning into "Who can get there fastest with the most lights? You WIN!"

The other thing is, please don't cap when your team already has the game locked up. Go shoot something and you can still get the same XP/C-bill rewards, probably more.

[Urdnot Mau]

Timuroslav, on 05 April 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I don't agree with the whole the more damage the more useful you are.
Base capping/distracting/baiting/pulling other mechs from the main fighting group is a valid argument for Light Mechs.

That is true. I've seen lots of footage where light mechs are being chased by bigger mechs and they end up facing a wall of the light's team mates. In frozen city the light mech is the one to peek over the ridge to see if there are enemies there. In conquest the light mech is the one to travel through the cave to take the enemy's "base".
This is why in EVERY MATCH each team needs at least ONE light mech. That's why the matchmaker is not doing it's job properly.

Edited by Urdnot Mau, 05 April 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[aniviron]

Dead Eye 01, on 05 April 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

^This. If Death's Knell is viable (which it is), all Lights are.

Spider 5k wishes to have a word with you.

[Dnarvel]

When lights first became the FotM, back when the lag-shield was huge, I said as the lag got fixed you would see less and less lights. And it is true, and think of when collision finally comes back in, you will see even fewer lights. This is because now it is taking lots of skill to keep a light mech alive and still viable against all the Sniping PPC/Gauss poptart builds. Add collisiona nd only the truly skilled pilots will be running lights.
This isn't to say other pilots aren't as skilled, but just that piloting a light requires "fast-twitch" reflexes now more than ever, and constantly thinking of your escape route as you move against the enemy. Most people are more content with a slower, heavier armored, more powerful build, and it suits their play style. Lights are no longer the OP/can't touch me mechs, so all the people who ran lights for this reason have now switched back to their heavies/assaults.

[Papaspud]

My 2 favorite mechs are the jenner d and the x5.... I do just fine -most of the time- in them.

[Caleb Lee]

Pretty much what others have hit on the head:

1) Light mechs take more skill to pilot now that the lag shield and hitboxes have been adjusted, not to mention hitscan which will soon be on all weapons.
2) Knockdown is coming... you'll see even less light pilots as I still see a lot of leg humpers out there.
3) JJ aren't as effective as they once were.
4) How the system rewards for damage done etc... as they aren't living as long they aren't the holy terrors they once were except in the hands of the best pilots.

5) Elo - It really screws over the high end, top 20% etc... if I pilot a light I do really well in it typically. This means I'm still on the higher end of the Elo range most of the time. What it also means is I'm facing better pilots which is fine, but also the heavy hitters on my team are usually in a lower Elo range and we end up losing more.

Right now the system favors good players staying in heavy hitting mechs that can absorb more damage and dish out the most so their team stands a better chance.

The only time I run lights is when I'm part of a pack. The rest of the time I delegate it to an average player as it's really hard to command a drop from a light.

Things they could do to improve the light:

1) Boost rewards a bit, maybe 10-20% to provide incentives for doing damage... not capping in game modes like Assault.
2) Fix Elo... maybe match score with another and require same class/battle value range.
3) Boost JJ a bit...

[Bishop Steiner]

you wanna save the Lights?

DO YOU REALLY WANNA SAVE THE LIGHTS?!?!?!?!?

Then there is only one solution.......


UNLEASH THE URBANMECH!!!!!

[Flashback37]

Lights are definitely viable in the hands of a skilled pilot. Had a match yesterday where a spider had half my team shooting each other trying to kill it. lol

[I am]

The more prevelant light Mechs are in MWO, and the faster they go, the more alike this game is to Call of Duty.

[FupDup]

I am, on 05 April 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

The more prevelant light Mechs are in MWO, and the faster they go, the more alike this game is to Call of Duty.

How so?

In Call of Duty, everyone is the same speed and everyone dies in just a few shots (often just one).

[Kobold]

Light play is still ruined by the streak/ECM combination that PGI opted to implement. Light fights were FAR more fun last summer, back before ECM existed (and before people realized how effective Streaks were).

If Streaks weren't auto-hit, and collisions were back in, light dueling would be way more fun than it is.

[FupDup]

Kobold, on 05 April 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Light play is still ruined by the streak/ECM combination that PGI opted to implement. Light fights were FAR more fun last summer, back before ECM existed (and before people realized how effective Streaks were).

If Streaks weren't auto-hit, and collisions were back in, light dueling would be way more fun than it is.

I agree with the Streaks/ECM point, but adding knockdowns would just make light dueling into a derptarded rugby match. It would come down to hoping you have more teammates nearby to nuke the defenseless sitting duck that you just deliberately smashed into at full speed than said enemy mech does.

Edited by FupDup, 05 April 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[I am]

FupDup, on 05 April 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

How so?

In Call of Duty, everyone is the same speed and everyone dies in just a few shots (often just one).

Have you ever played call of duty? Everyone is not that guy running around with dual G18s. You gents running the ravens, your that guy. We need less of that. Pre-LRM nerf, you LRM spammers, you were the noob tubers. We needed less of you too.

[Derk Talon]

Now i don't have a lot of time to play, but when i do i'm pugging commando's or cicadas.
What i found is that if you want to be a light pilot, you must find your own rewards, for you will not get them from the game. I scout, target and tag and keep my team updated whenever i can through chat. Late game i often sacrifice myself for the team. Though the reward system was improved, i feel it does not reflect the effort put into a good scouting run.

Do we need a better reward/xp system? Probably, but please not global. What lights need is role warfare: Scout, brawler, striker, support mechs, each with their own set of xp/c-bill rewards, so that the rewards better reflect how well you played your role, instead of how big a cannon you brought.

[Yokaiko]

OneEyed Jack, on 05 April 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

That's how it should be, but in reality, if the Light pilot is any good, the Assault is probably a free kill.

LOL

No not if the assault can shoot.

[Kaspirikay]

I'm still using my 3L just fine

[aniviron]

Timuroslav, on 05 April 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I don't agree with the whole the more damage the more useful you are.
Base capping/distracting/baiting/pulling other mechs from the main fighting group is a valid argument for Light Mechs.

Yes, knockdown does need to implemented, and eventually it will. BUT NOT TO THE DEGREE it was introduced. How many games do you play where your ally heartlessly steps on and shaves off armor on your legs because they're not aware of their surroundings?
Triple that and imagine a Commando being tripped at least twice everytime a match begins that's how bad it was.
The Tripping system needs to go both ways though depending on how the leg is hit, mid-air both the atlas and the hunchback fall. Standing the Atlas doesn't move and the running Hunchback stumbles and falls.

My statement: There needs to be More Mech Xp rewards for spotting for Artillery Mechs. As of now, people rate teammates usefulness based on Combat damage, which is not always fair to the Pilot who was leading the charge in an Assault or a Light Mech that was searching and spotting.

Thing is, right now the game pretty much boils down to who does the most combat damage, unless it is one of those uncommon conquest games where it winds up going down to the cap early-mid game. The useful thing about spotting is that it lets your LRMs hit, but LRMs are a joke right now; and it's risky to be a spotter, because if you're not weaving in and out of cover, you're a target, which means you're dead, which means you can't hold the target for the LRMs well anyway.

Sure, it's a nice luxury to know where your enemies are, but the predominant pug tactic is to stick together in a ball with cover, which means generally your teammates will have the approaches covered and you know where your opponents are when it's relevant anyway.

Pulling mechs away from the fight is another fine idea, but once again, it loses to any opponent who is smart/disciplined enough to not play "chase the jenner." It's especially bad when you are nipping at their heels for almost no damage or trying to get them to come back to a cap point, only to be ignored and have your teammates lose a brawl because they were lacking the firepower you could have brought to the field.

The one exception I will carve out for this is the 3L and the rare Jenner pilot you see who weaves in and out of terrain like a madman, scoring 600+ damage and causing havoc everywhere he/she goes. But again, they're useful not necessarily just as someone who moves through combat causing chaos, but rather because they are dealing damage while they also distract.

[FupDup]

I am, on 05 April 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

Have you ever played call of duty? Everyone is not that guy running around with dual G18s. You gents running the ravens, your that guy. We need less of that. Pre-LRM nerf, you LRM spammers, you were the noob tubers. We needed less of you too.

You still haven't explained why somebody running around in a giant robot's cockpit at high speeds, thin armor, a small weapons payload, throttled movement, torso twisting, radar, heat generation and unrefillable ammo plays like a "generic" infantry-based FPS.


The only point you seem to be trying to make is that people playing a flavor-of-the-month unit somehow makes this game into CoD. So long as a disproportionally large number of the weapons and builds in this game remain underpowered, people are always going to take directly-superior loadouts to improve their chances of winning. We've seen it with Splatapults, Gausskitties, Jagerbombs, Jumpsniping Cataphracts, anything with ECM, and some others. Any system that can be gamed will be gamed. Welcome to human nature and every Mechwarrior game ever made.

Edited by FupDup, 06 April 2013 - 07:07 AM.