102 replies to this topic

[Adrienne Vorton]

Haroldwolf, on 03 June 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

Please erase WoT from our vocabulary!! WoT is what happens when devs drink too much Vodka!

...and need money for more vodka^^

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Woodstock, on 03 June 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

no ..just ...no ...oh please ..no

I play WoT and the whole grinding from one 'tier' to another is a nightmare.

All mechs are balanced, the value of the mech should be individual ...based on tonnage and the equipment fitted.

anyone who's played the table top game of mechwarrior knows that mechs, (even the same weight) are not balanced. Some mechs have a terrible combination of weapons and speed. Shadowhawk anyone? great for kicking and charging but not the best weapon load out. PC gamer did a review and it does appear there will be a tree like structure for advancement of skills and mech types. Now is that like WoT? Till we see it I dont know.

[Kenaris]

There is a old Topic about this some where about how a lot of players would hate a tier system.. i was one of them....

In your theory of gameplay i would have to play a lesser mech i really don't like and will most likely cause me to play the game less because of it just to keep playing the mech i do want to play....

Does this sound like a game winning design to you cause sounds like Fail to me..

I didn't quit WoT's because of crappy game play it is a lot of fun to be honest.

I quit cause of the dumb game model Tier system of oh if you want to play your ultra fun Tier VIII plus.. you also need to play a lesser tank like Tier V or Buy one of our Premium Tanks to keep it running..

I just didn't find the grind in a lesser tank fun if i wanted to play in a Tier V tank all the time i would have stoped at Tier V

Sorry but being able to play the way i want is going to make me stick around and spend money. not being told how i have to play.

[DDM PLAGUE]

Tterrag, on 03 June 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

If you have the stones to be the first one running out into the group with a lone atlas than good on ya me personally I don't want to have to pay the repair bill for having my mech being blasted apart constantly.

I am slightly worried about every ***** and they granny hopping in light mech saying "Oh ima be a scout caused you get exp for lookin at people" god only knows how many lances will be running blind cause they had a fool scout that caught a Gauss Rifle to the knee

That is so true,, You have to know how to scout to be an effective scout,
There will always be a mix of Mechs in any Squadron worth damn, becuase it takes all kinds of different weapon platforms to perform the mission, therefore it takes the right pilot to drive said Mechs.
Every Mechpilot I know is part of a team, and is just waiting to chew the armor off of the above Atlas. we love easy prey i.e peeps that run by themselves.

[Shapeshifter]

I actually liked how WoT had to work towards unlocking new weapons/better tanks

Made you feel like you were making progress and not having everything on a silver platter.

[MadBoris]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 03 June 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

PC gamer did a review and it does appear there will be a tree like structure for advancement of skills and mech types. Now is that like WoT? Till we see it I dont know.

I remember when I used to use the good things, good to me, in WoT to help illustrate on the forums what they are doing in MW:O.
I read that article long ago, many will never know how many WOT ideas have already been implemented, and good PGI did too.
There are many things WoT does right and is a great foundation to build on.

As PC Gamer said in their article, a lot of the M:WO seems to be taken directly from WoT,
PC Gamer said that because they know better than the fans here that never played WoT.
It's obvious to those experienced in WOT that many many ideas were taken.

We need to continue to be vocal so that those making decisions with MW:o don't find themselves copying the model too closely, there are pitfalls to avoid.

When I read that in the article I didn't think Mechs, I thought of the way WOT handles the weapons, engines, modules, etc. Not the Mechs themselves. One thing I am pretty positive on is you will need XP to unlock everything first, before you can buy with your CBills or MC. The tree structure is how weapons/modules likely work out. You have to research one weapon type (LRM10 before the LRM15) before the other becomes available to be researched, that is a tree, and hopefully it doesn't go far beyond that.

Edited by MadBoris, 03 June 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[SmokkinAce]

I can only speculate that tank tier and mech class will converge. WoT added interesting extended skills to each of the crew. Where will MWO be the same to promote some grinding aspect? No MMO I have ever played did not have this aspect. I think tonnage will play a major role in the grind of each class. Pilot skill in each mech will also be affected. I look forward to whatever challenge presented to advance my pilot.

[Krave]

SwordofLight, on 03 June 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Terrible idea considering all the QQ thats associated with the tiering system in WoT. Now, you put my KV-2 in pretty much every battle with tier 10s like the E-100, and its broken - but I'm still going to accept the challenge, and I've had games where I've owned as a low tier. This is especially true when you look at a vehicle like the Marder II, which I dont think I've ever seen the top of the MM. Yet I get Top Gun awards and several Halonen medals for slaughtering higher tier tanks.

No, its not that the system is broken - its that to many players want an easy button, and whine and moan about how unfair it is that they're not precisely matched with their opposition. What they actually mean is 'why am I not always the best tank on the field?' and resent having to fight for a victory.

-Don

I agree, the Easy Button is the Issue.
When player lose in MW, whines start here as well.

[X101]

No you don't only light tank gets small bonus for cryt on heavy tank and small bonus for all dmg under 200m, this is why people don't go along with WOT they never read battle mechanics.

Edited by X101, 03 June 2012 - 09:52 AM.

[PowerKill Necron]

Nope the simple fact that any mech can damage any othe mech negates the tier advantage you get in WOT. WOT is fun to play when you get a balanced game where all tanks can damage all other tanks, but when you are in a Marder 2 (arguably the best Tank Destroyer for it's tier in the game) and you are placed in a game with Tier 6 Heavy tanks you can't pen because Matchmaker was written by a retarded Chimp then the game kinda sucks. I DO NOT want to see that with MWO.

[Schtirlitz]

Yes, WoT is not that bad and there are some parts of gameplay that can be taken into MWO.
The pilot skills, for example. But of course MWO shouldn't be TOO MUCH like WoT.

[MadBoris]

SmokkinAce, on 03 June 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

WoT added interesting extended skills to each of the crew.

Another good idea I think, though not the best implementation in WoT.
I am curious how MW:O will handle pilot skills without making the new players learning to play even more underpowered in matches.
I'm hoping for some great matchmaking, it will be imperative to keep games fun with all the versatility of skill levels and mech designs.

[Volthorne]

MadBoris, on 03 June 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

One thing I am pretty positive on is you will need XP to unlock everything first, before you can buy with your CBills or MC. The tree structure is how weapons/modules likely work out. You have to research one weapon type (LRM10 before the LRM15) before the other becomes available to be researched, that is a tree, and hopefully it doesn't go far beyond that.

No. Go to hell. That is exactly what SHOULD NOT be happening. Where has it ever been stated in ANY form of BT/MW (Yes, that includes the franchise that shall not be named) that "You must personally research X tech to use it, even though 50000 professional scientists researched it before you"? LRM-10s are NOT inferior to LRM-15s. Sure, they fire 5 less missiles per volley. They also weigh 3 tons less and take up a fewer amount of crits, which means you can A] hold more ammo, and B] mount more of them.

[MadBoris]

PKNecron, on 03 June 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

WOT is fun to play when you get a balanced game where all tanks can damage all other tanks, but when you are in a Marder 2 (arguably the best Tank Destroyer for it's tier in the game) and you are placed in a game with Tier 6 Heavy tanks you can't pen because Matchmaker was written by a retarded Chimp then the game kinda sucks.

Yeah, a retarded chimp laughing all the way to the bank.

See, that is the crossroads, and you chose to get pissed about it and resent it.
While that crazy chimp banks on others choosing an alternate route, a way to avoid the strife of disliking the game you were liking a lot and invested yourself in, to spend money to climb up a tree because 'everyone' knows the top is the best.

Edited by MadBoris, 03 June 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[MadBoris]

Volthorne, on 03 June 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

No. Go to hell. That is exactly what SHOULD NOT be happening. Where has it ever been stated in ANY form of BT/MW (Yes, that includes the franchise that shall not be named) that "You must personally research X tech to use it, even though 50000 professional scientists researched it before you"? LRM-10s are NOT inferior to LRM-15s. Sure, they fire 5 less missiles per volley. They also weigh 3 tons less and take up a fewer amount of crits, which means you can A] hold more ammo, and B] mount more of them.

I don't take it personally. Unlocking things by Xp is not my idea to promote, it's my observation based on what I have seen, it's not been stated anywhere specifically in those words. I used my words pretty carefully, "I am pretty positive". Ultimately unlocking by XP, by play time in the game, would mean you won't have every mech/weapon/module in the MW:o catalog to buy with your first $20.
I take responsibility for the unlocking by XP concept, but as stated it's based on my observations of known information, never meant to mislead that it should be done, or that it is a stated feature.

As far as the tree thing, and it resembling WoT, and what they mean by tree, the poster above me and PC Gamer mentioned that, don't kill the messenger. The LRM thing was something I pulled out of my butt on the fly, it was a wild guess on the tree concept.

It's good you expressed your opinion on it though.

Edited by MadBoris, 03 June 2012 - 10:17 AM.

[Starne]

No tier system, please. There is no reason why the Med Lasers on a Jenner should be any less effective than the Med Lasers on an Atlas. Likewise, a ton of armor should be a ton of armor, whether it's on a tiny 20 tonner, or on a hulking 100 tonner.

As said above, If I buy a Hunchback, I want it to be in the Prime Configuration. I don't want it to start with two small lasers and a AC/5, forcing me to grind for a week to 'unlock' AC/20s and Med Lasers.

Having persistent pilot skills is fine. I'm fine with someone who decides to specialize in Scouting having like a +15% bonus to radar range or whatever. I'm fine with there being a pilot skill that reduces the lock-on time for LRMs. I'm fine with their being a "PPC Optimization" skill that reduces heat generation from PPCs by 5%. Things like that are fine. It's customization. Customization is good, I like customization. If it's balanced properly.

If I have enough C-Bills in my wallet to afford a Dragon, I should be able to buy it, and if I have the C-Bills to do so, there should be absolutely no obstacles to keep me from modifying that Mech as I please, within the limitations of the MechLab, of course. At no point should I be forced to "Research" weapons or components. You want IS Tech? Go out and buy it. You want Clan Tech? Go kill some Clanners and loot their stuff.

[MadBoris]

Starne, on 03 June 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

As said above, If I buy a Hunchback, I want it to be in the Prime Configuration. I don't want it to start with two small lasers and a AC/5, forcing me to grind for a week to 'unlock' AC/20s and Med Lasers.

Unlock does not equal Grind.
Grind is bad, unlock is not IMO.

For you to spend $200-$300 in the first week and unlock everything I don't think is a reasonable expectation.
Unless you want F2P to be the new get quick rich scheme for modders.

If it is all purchasable, unless the game play is constant unique magic, it may be hard to keep people around for 3 months.
Without enough people, it devolves to a tiny niche.

I have been vocal against grind since I got here, which Wot is a crazy grind.
Tribes: Ascend on the other hand, another F2P that unlocks by XP, a 9 different classes based game, not so bad at all.

Edited by MadBoris, 03 June 2012 - 10:41 AM.

[Renan Ruivo]

SuckyJack, on 03 June 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

WoT is about the worst design model you can make for a video game as it's not intended to balance anything in game but rather get you set on a very strong treadmill designed to provide incentive to it's Pay2Win model.

WoT is a payment scheme and treadmill first, WW2 tank simulator second. That tank simulator is very good in mechanics, but the design of everything around it is rubbish. Anything that starts with "Following WoT" for an idea should be thrown out the window and burned on principle alone.

You know, i was not going to post on this thread but ... as a WoT veteran i am a little disturbed by the things you have said. It is not a perfect game, but its not what you paint it as being either.

I wish people would understand things and know about what they are talking a little better before making such claims. World of Tanks is one of the best and most balanced Free to Play games out there. It has its share of balance issues, but most of the times people complaining about it simply do not understand how match-making works, and why sometimes a T5 gets inserted into a T7-8 match.


Furthermore, if you truly believe that "Anything that starts with 'Following WoT' for an idea should be thrown out the window and burned on principle alone." you should stay clear of MechWarrior: Online.

[MacabreDerek]

Renan Ruivo, on 03 June 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

You know, i was not going to post on this thread but ... as a WoT veteran i am a little disturbed by the things you have said. It is not a perfect game, but its not what you paint it as being either.

I wish people would understand things and know about what they are talking a little better before making such claims. World of Tanks is one of the best and most balanced Free to Play games out there. It has its share of balance issues, but most of the times people complaining about it simply do not understand how match-making works, and why sometimes a T5 gets inserted into a T7-8 match.


Furthermore, if you truly believe that "Anything that starts with 'Following WoT' for an idea should be thrown out the window and burned on principle alone." you should stay clear of MechWarrior: Online.

Alright, I'll bite. Tell me why should I consider a game where I can pop inside my KV-1 and be unable to pen any armour save for a lucky one in a million shot due to being in a tier 7-10 game? I'd like to know what's so appealing, where the fun is when playing in the 4-6 range when you know full well the MM system is going to throw you in a battle where the only thing you can hurt is the Arty, while being in the worst tank to do so. I really would like to know how the MM system can be at all justified, and how one can squease fun out of that proverbial rock.

Trust me, nothing would please me more (Save for MWOs release) than to say that WoTs is an enjoyable, balanced game. For me, this has been the furthest thing form the case. Looking at the hours I would need to play before I could get into a T7 tank is ludicrous. The amount of hours someone needs to put in before they can get into a T7-9 tank is just stupid, and it feels to me that "You need to put in 3 months of play-time before you are alowed to play the game as intended".

Dead serious, I am trying to see this your way, but my experience thus far with WoTs has only taught me that it is not a game worth investing the hours upon hours of play time.

Edited by MacabreDerek, 03 June 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[Renan Ruivo]

MacabreDerek, on 03 June 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Dead serious, I am trying to see this your way, but my experience thus far with WoTs has only taught me that it is not a game worth investing the hours upon hours of play time.

I got there without burning myself out. WoT is not a game where you should expect to be on the top after just a week or two of play, like World of Warcraft, for instance. If you try to get there as fast as possible then yes, you can bet its going to be a grind. And that is the point, you are not supposed to go there as fast as possible, you're supposed to enjoy the game. Why do you want top tier? Its not fun, i tell you. The best fun i have had on World of Tanks was with my T-28.

Yes, T-28. People are so deadset on "leveling up" and getting to the top soviet tier that they just blow as fast as they can through the T-28 without ever learning how to properly drive it, and as a consequence they say that it "sucks".

And no, buying "premium" tanks won't do it either because most of the premium tanks are terrible when compared to tanks on the same tier.



Now, about the matchmaking system, i would suggest reading this: http://forum.worldof...-making-system/ and this: http://forum.worldof...tchmaking-work/ if you are really interested in knowing how it works, instead of just saying that it is "Broken." Simply put, the matchmaking system does the best it can with what it has for the random matches. Which is why i said that "WoT has its share of balancing issues".


Also, if you have a KV-2 and you get put in a match against Tier 9 tanks, and you can't penetrate anyone and can't do anything then chances are that you are not approaching the scenario the way you should be. I won't presume to tell you what you should do, because i am not as good a player as other KV-2 pilots (if you go to the WoT forums and ask you will be showered with information on how to proceed on this scenario) but you can definatly play with the big guys. HE shells, tracking the enemy so that the big boys on your team can finish them, base defense, the list goes on ...

So again, the problem with pretty much everyone that complains about World of Tanks is lack of practice, tactical thinking and team-play. But that is only natural. People will always complain and blame everything and everyone else before looking at their own navels and seeing what they can do to improve and take advantage of the situation.