102 replies to this topic

[Renan Ruivo]

Volthorne, on 03 June 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

Those "Elite" bonuses are theoretically universal across all variants of that particular 'Mech. Still bonuses. Not a new Chassis or variant.

You have factual proof to back up that specific claim? I'm really curious.


Also, i forgot about this part, but i recall now that the devs have said that chassis will become available to the player according to the "rank" on a given house or faction.

I still maitain my position that within a same weight class some mechs are better than others. You can only have so many roles, and you have more 'mechs on battletech lore than roles for them to fulfill, not to mention that newer and more advanced models are definatly more "desireable", even though they might be the same tonnage.

Of course, there's also the cost to consider. Better 'mechs will also cost a lot more, and money won't be fast to get i'm pretty sure.

Edited by Renan Ruivo, 03 June 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[LoscC3nturion]

MadBoris, on 03 June 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

I just wanted to say, there is no reason for people to assume their will be a "GRIND" like WoT.
I'm sure hoping it feels like something a lot more natural, not grindy.

Having the whole M:WO catalog wide open from the beginning seems hard to pull off in my mind is all, but it sure doesn't have to be a bad experience grind, if they do it right. The cost of some mech chassis does look scarey though.

I think you have missed the point. All Mechs/Wepons are available to all BUT YOU NEED TO EARN CBILLs to pay for them, Not a tier system but an economic system.

You earn pilot exp through battles. These are then used to add perks/mods to your pilot/Mech chassis. Once you have maxed that chassis another variant of that chassis becomes available to you. Its not always going to be a better chassis, maybe diff hard points etc.
This is still not a tier system as you dont unlock a bigger/better Mech just a new variant.

IMHO having read the dev blogs once or twice lol.

[Volthorne]

Renan Ruivo, on 03 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

You have factual proof to back up that specific claim? I'm really curious.

Notice my use of "THEORETICALLY". Also, I do believe that the Devs have confirmed somewhere that the "Elite" tier on a 'Mech is a bonus of some sort. I'm not going digging through a hundred thousand posts looking for one, though.

Renan Ruivo, on 03 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

I still maitain my position that within a same weight class some mechs are better than others. You can only have so many roles, and you have more 'mechs on battletech lore than roles for them to fulfill, not to mention that newer and more advanced models are definatly more "desireable", even though they might be the same tonnage.

Well, yeah, there are going to be some designs inherently better than others. That's how it goes.

[Renan Ruivo]

Volthorne, on 03 June 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Notice my use of "THEORETICALLY".

No no, i mean when you said that "Elite Levels" don't relate to making different chassis available.

[Volthorne]

Renan Ruivo, on 03 June 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

No no, i mean when you said that "Elite Levels" don't relate to making different chassis available.

Why would they? Which makes more sense: "You 'leveled up' 3 or four different variants! Here's a 4th/5th" or "You 'leveled up' 3 or 4 different variants! Here's a cross-variant boost!"

[Riptor]

Wow.. there is so much gossiping and spreading false truths in this thread its mind boogling.

First of all.. not a single weapon or mech need to be "unlocked"

Not through rank, faction points, XP or anything else.

All you need is the cbills or the MC and you can buy it.

The devs have stated enough times that everyone will be able to purchase everything, the only difference the different factions will grant you is making certain mechs cheaper for you if your faction produces/owns the mech you want.

There also is no Tech tree to unlock weapons by using XP... when you buy a mech you will get its stock configuration. They use ORIGINAL stock configurations wich means you know in advance wich weapons you will get.. and there is all kinds of weapons of all different classes and sizes available in those stock configurations.

Once again:There are no limits whatsoever concerning the usage of mechs and weapons asside from necesary cash to obtain mechs and weapons... this was made more then clear by the devs and what was shown to us in the videos.

For those that still imagine things i suggest you take a close look at the mechlab vid posted a month ago.

Edited by Riptor, 03 June 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[Renan Ruivo]

Volthorne, on 03 June 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Why would they? Which makes more sense: "You 'leveled up' 3 or four different variants! Here's a 4th/5th" or "You 'leveled up' 3 or 4 different variants! Here's a cross-variant boost!"

Hmm, nevermind, you are right. I was under a wrong impression about the whole 'mech tree and tiering mechanic.

So technically every 'mech will be available for purchase from the get go (with the exception of rank-specific 'mechs for each faction)? I can see how this is preferable to WoT mechanics, However, it also means that completely researching all tiers on a specific 'mech's tree might take almost as long, if not just as long as researching the same number of tiers on a vehicle tree on WoT. This means that the player will be "stuck" with that 'mech for a really long time, if he wishes to completely research it.

[Gunfighter 11]

Absolutely not tiers is a head ache and should not come into this game i have played WoT since beta and during Beta is good for that game but have dealt with a lot B.S. due to it.. Hacks and scripters have made the game almost impossible to get where you need to be.. i dont think as a player and tester that it would be beneficial to this game.

[Phaid Knott]

Sorry just got back in the house....

First of all the OP isn't so much about adding Tiers (my bad on the thread title), but about "if" the credit gain for playing an Assault class should be as great as for say a medium. If you add a straight 20 Credits for each damage point inflicted, then hell yeah Assault mechs are going to be Credit making machines.

But lets go back to older MW games. From my recollection unless you had a hard cap on the Lance weight, pretty much everyone spawned an assult mech. There were a few die hards who stuck with lighter mechs, but it was the usually teams of 100 ton mechs slugging it out. The vast majority of Players if left to their own devices will spawn the heaviest mech around and see no point in spawning anything lighter.

Back on the WoT issues, yeah T5 lights against T10 heavies. LOVED those matches, they were usually my highest earners (and I did so without firing a shot and surviving...WoT Vets might be able to explain how you can do this ). Now MWO is bringing PUG spawns to a battlefield (as well at Lances, but thats another issue). So if players in a majority can freely spawn assaults then you have the following issues.

1. Wait times for Assaults will be the highest
2. Lighter mechs should get a slot easier, but the individual player is at a disadvantage in an 1-1 duel (so will be only popular with a few).

So we have moans about how Assaults have a harder time of it. What WoT did was make it useful to actually spawn lighter tanks (or Tiers), so I ask should a similar mechanic be in MWO to spread the mech population (or can you think of another that would do)? How do you make spawning lighter mechs viable to the player (or shift them away from spawning the heaviest thing they can find).

I'm just thinking back to MW3 and MW4 multiplayer and how it evolved over time (for the determent of the game) on the vast majority of player run servers. I could usually find 10 unlimited weight/no heat servers for every heat/stock only servers. Players usually rail against control, but a lack of control can also make the game less "fun".

And finaly back to WoT, if you joined after the introduction of premium tanks (and the T59 that finally buggered up the game) then yes you will have a poor opinion. But the game in Beta and the in the early days was a lot more fun (a lesson to be learned there as well). I actually stopped at T7 because the matches were actually more fun (for me) than carrying on.

[MadBoris]

LoscC3nturion, on 03 June 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

I think you have missed the point. All Mechs/Wepons are available to all BUT YOU NEED TO EARN CBILLs to pay for them, Not a tier system but an economic system.

I don't think there is a tier system, the F2P model will be earning CBills to pay for them, that's how I saw it.
Not sure of the confusion. I'm just not absolutely clear on everything until I see it, things in development can change too.

But I do have a tough time understanding how everything can be so evenly powered that everything is available simultaneously up front, we'll see how balanced it all goes.

Edited by MadBoris, 03 June 2012 - 02:43 PM.

[Renan Ruivo]

MadBoris, on 03 June 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

I don't think there is a tier system, the F2P model will be earning CBills to pay for them, that's how I saw it.
Not sure of the confusion. I'm just not absolutely clear on everything until I see it, things in development can change too.

But I do have a tough time understanding how everything can be so evenly powered that everything is available simultaneously up front, we'll see how balanced it all goes.

I'm worried about that as well. If everything can be immediatly bought with c-points, then there's nothing keeping people with deep pockets from buying every "top" mech and put the best equipment money can buy on it. Forming a picture with the information we have at the moment is confusing at best, and i believe that talking about it will do nothing but spread rumors.


On another note, from what i have gathered there will be no "matchmaking" as we know from WoT. I believe it will be lobby based, where you enter a "sub-server" with a group of people, with map rotation, and you can see what everyone else is bringing in. Then, you will probably have anywhere between 30 seconds to 2 minutes before the match begins where the team can talk and plan which mechs to use.

And from the Q&A:

Quote

To sort of expand on two questions previously asked, about command, will command in any drop be established automatically by rank, or is it chosen prior to launching into the drop, for each drop? I ask because people do not generally make rank unless the Command & Staff are frivolous with their rank structure or they have not earned it. –Kay Wolf

[PAUL] Command is chosen prior to the drop. For Merc Corps, it’s up to the Merc Corp Leader or its officers to decide who’s going to be in those command positions. For Lone Wolf and Faction Players, it will come down to a calculation on their previous experience by default then it can be left up to the players of the match to swap out if so desired.

Edited by Renan Ruivo, 03 June 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[frankyes]

WoT... Everyone's said it already.. I'm not going into detail. A few hunchbacks with AC20's targeting the legs can cripple an atlas then finished by LRM20s from a catapult. Tactics, nuff said. WoT... I see you, I shoot you, if you're bigger, I lose.

Renan Ruivo, on 03 June 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

I'm worried about that as well. If everything can be immediatly bought with c-points, then there's nothing keeping people with deep pockets from buying every "top" mech and put the best equipment money can buy on it. Forming a picture with the information we have at the moment is confusing at best, and i believe that talking about it will do nothing but spread rumors.


On another note, from what i have gathered there will be no "matchmaking" as we know from WoT. I believe it will be lobby based, where you enter a "sub-server" with a group of people, with map rotation, and you can see what everyone else is bringing in. Then, you will probably have anywhere between 30 seconds to 2 minutes before the match begins where the team can talk and plan which mechs to use.

And from the Q&A:

[/i]

So what? You're bloodasp has 3 Clan Gauss rifles on it..

Arthas Latstrong, on 03 June 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

A few hunchbacks with AC20's targeting the legs can cripple an "Edit: expensive *** bloodasp" then finished by LRM20s from a catapult. Tactics, nuff said.

[MadBoris]

Renan Ruivo, on 03 June 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

I believe it will be lobby based, where you enter a "sub-server" with a group of people, with map rotation, and you can see what everyone else is bringing in. Then, you will probably have anywhere between 30 seconds to 2 minutes before the match begins where the team can talk and plan which mechs to use.

The simplicity of a quick play button is something to be appreciated, if they can do matchmaking.
But yes, thx for bringing that back to memory. Based on that, maybe their is a point system that a team has to spend.
Sounds more old school. How they set it up is anyone's guess at this point. I think it would be tough to make a MM, but I think it could be cool if done well.

[Renan Ruivo]

The thing about lobbies i love the most is that when you find a random team with whom you have good synergy, you can stay together in that lobby and have several, good quality matches together.

On World of Tanks and with the matchmaking system, when you find a good group of people to work with its only going to be for that specific match, unless you want to commit yourself to joining a tank company with them (which is the extra mile many people aren't keen on taking).


I still haven't played Tribes, but i have played Blacklight and this is what i love the most about it.

[MadBoris]

The metagame and the clan houses will add some interesting twists I imagine.

[Diomedesbc]

As much as I"m addicted to WoT, it does drive me insane most days. Tiers really do suck and being up against a tank you can't damage or the spotting system is pretty frustrating.

We better stay away from WoT system.

[0 Tharn 0]

Friggin hilarious listening to all the Wot whining little cusses.
WoT a good game and it's fun for people who play it for free as well as those who pay to earn creds and xp quicker- so get over it.

MWO hasnt even come out yet - I know everyone has their high hopes up, but the people who are putting this game out as free 2 play are not expecting everyone to play for friggin free -Do you not understand this?They need to make whats called a 'living' so they will set it up the best way they can so they can earn a living. Whether you like the way the battles are set up or not.
Period!

[Renan Ruivo]

THARN3, on 03 June 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Friggin hilarious listening to all the Wot whining little cusses.
WoT a good game and it's fun for people who play it for free as well as those who pay to earn creds and xp quicker- so get over it.

MWO hasnt even come out yet - I know everyone has their high hopes up, but the people who are putting this game out as free 2 play are not expecting everyone to play for friggin free -Do you not understand this?They need to make whats called a 'living' so they will set it up the best way they can so they can earn a living. Whether you like the way the battles are set up or not.
Period!

Yeah. No.

[Shivus]

I wouldn't worry much. WoT is separated by tiers because the tanks are restricted by gun penetration, and damge, while mechs are just mechs, and a medium laser is a medium laser.

The closest we'll get to tiers are individual pilot skills in the three trees, which we use xp for. Maybe even access to more advanced weaponry with a higher house relationship. But tiers on the mechs, no.

[Wo0m3rA]

Woodstock, on 03 June 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

no ..just ...no ...oh please ..no

I play WoT and the whole grinding from one 'tier' to another is a nightmare.

All mechs are balanced, the value of the mech should be individual ...based on tonnage and the equipment fitted.

I tend to agree with Woodstock on this one - The tier system in Wot can be nuisance.

I've been a player of tabletop miniatures for roughly 25 years and in that time have seen many techniques used to balance scenarios, from points systems in 1/300th scale micro-armor and 1/100th WW2 Flames of War to the original Battletech scenario design guidelines.

Battletech bases teams on tonnage which allows for a wide range of mechs without the exclusion of any particular class – for example one 100ton Atlas versus five 20ton Locusts. Remember that’s just an example.

Keeping with the BT/MW theme should be a goal of the developers and even though the tonnage based system originated with the tabletop game it shouldn’t be hard incorporating into an awesome online experience.