92 replies to this topic

[Skyfaller]

I would prefer if the devs took a slight artistic license for this one.


Just like star trek migrated from the perfectly circular saucer section on their starships post-original series (aka the TNG was a more flattened saucer, voyager and later series the saucer section was obloid not circular)... why not make the urbanmech's torso the same way?



Instead of a 'bucket' shape torso, make it more like an Alien's (the pop-out-of-your-chest-kind) forehead shaped torso?

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 April 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Pretty sure most existing ones are more battered and dented than a taxi cab in Mexico City.......
(And I would LOVE if the DEVS could somehow add a "Battered" skin to the Mechs as an option. I would TOTALLY pay IRL money to weather, age and kick the crap outta my mech)

YES! Oh my god, this. I'd throw money at them to get a battered and battle worn skin for my mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

@Skytaller
Pretty sure most Urbie fans would definitely consider that one of the "Wheel of Ruin" ideas you quote in your soggy. (Lonestar is just an endless source of optimism)

@StJobe
Actually my torso and left arm borrowed liberally from the bobblehead. Then I looked at Alex's designs to see how to bring those features to it. No way was the panoramic window of death cockpit screen gonna make it to production.

I got a few marketing concepts for the Urbie in the IS, including "the Little Urbie that could" kids morning holovsion show, and UrbiePuffs cereal (now sugar free to help fight off the Cavity Confederation (a big hit in Davion space) and more.

[Joseph Mallan]

I prefer v1 Bishop. v2 looks to massive.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 April 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Some Ideas put forth to enhance UrbanMech "viability", as per previous Topic: (Not expecting ALL to be applied, but any mix of the ideas below could work as "quirks" for the chassis)

-Give it even more torso rotation than a Catapult, able to rotate 360 degree in either direction
-Make it the size of a Portly Commando (it IS only 5 tons heavier, and stocky... so maybe even a skosh shorter)
-Give both arms crazy firing arcs
-Better acceleration and braking than other mechs (it might not go fast, but it can stutter run better than anything, and throw off aim) along with great turn radius.
-Allow it to double the normal engine upgrade size.
-Jump lift off faster than a Spider, and a better jump fuel supply.
- Allow for some non cannon upgrades like AMS and ECM (he might be slow, but good luck finding him!).
- 3 Module slots, stock.
-a Hero version mounting a much larger engine (maybe allowing our lovable garbage can to hit 84 kph?) (maybe based of my Capellan March "Police Special?)
-3 or MORE AMS slots.
-Like one of the Spiders, or the Heavy Metal, allow it to carry more JumpJets than Canon.

If you are an Urbie Hater, that is OK too.. just try to maybe actually give well thought out posts WHY it cannot work.

Firstly, it would seem that several suggestions run along the lines of "Let's make the Urbie OP!!!1!one!!"

• It seems unlikely that the UrbanMech would (or should) have 360-degree rotation, as several others that one might expect have it by virtue of their geometry (Jenner, Raven, Cicada, Catapult, Stalker) and/or role (JagerMech, as an AA platform) do not. I would imagine that the best that could be expected is 180-degrees (that is, being able to look behind oneself from one direction or the other, but not turn in a complete circle).
  
• Neither arm on any of the timeline-available variants (UM-R60, UM-R60L, UM-R50, UM-R63) has Lower Arm Actuators; it makes no sense to "give both arms crazy firing arcs".
  
• There is little/no justification for giving it double the engine limit of every other light 'Mech (especially when the UrbanMech was specifically designed to sacrifice speed for firepower).
  
• There is little/no justification for the UrbanMech having jump performance superior to that of the Spider (especially when the former usually only carries one-quarter of the total number of Jump Jets as the latter).
  
• There is little/no justification for giving it three AMS hardpoints (especially when the UrbanMech is designed for urban combat, where (1) missiles are generally not the preferred weapon system (hence the UrbanMech's usual own lack of missile weapons) and (2) any missiles used would generally be fired from such short ranges that even a trio of AMS units would be hard-pressed to present a significant impediment to all but the smallest of salvos (e.g. a single SRM-2)).

On top of that, each of the UrbanMech variants carries the same Engine - a STD 60, an engine type not yet implemented in-game.

However, there are at least three variants (potentially four):
UM-R60 minimum hardpoints: 1 ballistic (RA), 1 ballistic (LT), 1 energy (LA)
UM-R60L minimum hardpoints: 1 ballistic (RA), 1 energy (LA)
UM-R50 minimum hardpoints: 1 ballistic (RT), 1 energy (LT)
UM-R63 minimum hardpoints: 1 ballistic (RA), 1 energy (LT), 1 energy (LA)

UM-R60 suggested hardpoints: 1 ballistic (RA), 1 ballistic (LT), 1 energy (LA)
UM-R60L suggested hardpoints: 2 ballistic (RA), 1 energy (LA)
UM-R50 suggested hardpoints: 1 ballistic (RT), 2 energy (LT)
UM-R63 suggested hardpoints: 1 ballistic (RA), 1 energy (LT), 1 energy (LA)

Each variant would likely carry an AMS hardpoint in the RT, the UM-R63 (as the post-LosTech variant) could be allowed to carry ECM (CT hardpoint location, perhaps?), the vestigial arms of the UM-R50 could be made into panels that act to shield the side-torsos from attacks from the side, and each variant would likely start with two module slots (the apparent average/standard for Light 'Mechs).

Thoughts?

[Vermaxx]

The commando is not half as tall as the Hnchback.
The hunchback is not half as tall as the atlas.
The hunchback and centurion are different sizes.

The mech isn't tiny, it's just slow and ugly.

[Bishop Steiner]

@Strurm

Disagree with OP. Only way any would be OP is if multiple were combined.
360 rotation would be the only way Urbie could remotely fight off another light mech.
Crazy arm arc was simply saying if it can't rotate, give it something to compensate
Nyou totally misread the JJ statement. I NEVER said give it superior JJ to the Spider.
I DID use the Spider and Highlander as examples of non canon JJ use ingame, as no level 1 Spider can Mont 12 JJ, nor do any Highlanders mount 5. Hence, if THEY can break canon, why not let a mech like the Urbie, who NEEDS to be able to hop over buildings and fight rooftops 4-6 JJ INSTEAD of the 2 that by the current MWO mechanics, would be useless.
As for the Engine, PGI doesn't even currentlynMAKE one small enough for stock. And we have seen several areas like the YLW and Centys where they fudged engine caps as a quirk. Hence, instead of limiting an aUrbie to an 85 rated engine, and 48 kph max, are you really saying allowing up to a 120, and a 64 kph speed if go into make a 30 ton mech OP, particularly one that isnsingluarly I'll armed for fighting other light mechs?

[Bishop Steiner]

Most of your variants work, though the ballistic should be 2 hardpoints and maybe 3 on the armless.

[Bishop Steiner]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

The commando is not half as tall as the Hnchback.
The hunchback is not half as tall as the atlas.
The hunchback and centurion are different sizes.

The mech isn't tiny, it's just slow and ugly.

taken DIRECTLY from the in game models, ripped by Adridos. Note that the Commando comes almost to the base of the Autocannon on the Hunchbacks chest. Note that my UrbanMech ALSO reaches about the same height, but is more Rotund than the Commando, hence it will not be taller by any noticeable measure, if at all. Commando is flat, Urbie is round, and has a huge gun for a lot of his weight.

Does it ever get old being wrong so often?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 April 2013 - 06:47 AM.

[Vermaxx]

You didn't refute anything I said in THAT post, about the mechs being half again as tall as each other. You made a good case for your proposed height (assuming height HAS to be tied to weight, which centi/hunch issue refutes) and therefore invalidated my first snippy post. However, you quoted my second and then completely ignored everything I said.

So, yes, your proposed height is reasonable...just as reasonable as my belief that it should be taller than a commando. It is five tons larger after all.

So, in the same polite vein, does it ever get old being a snide arse so often?

[Utilyan]

Skyfaller, on 06 April 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

I would prefer if the devs took a slight artistic license for this one.


Just like star trek migrated from the perfectly circular saucer section on their starships post-original series (aka the TNG was a more flattened saucer, voyager and later series the saucer section was obloid not circular)... why not make the urbanmech's torso the same way?



Instead of a 'bucket' shape torso, make it more like an Alien's (the pop-out-of-your-chest-kind) forehead shaped torso?

Think Pillager already called dibs on aliens.



http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Pillager







Edit:
He could show up as 100 ton Liao assualt. So far Liao gots the cataphract, raven, blackjack, flea. So it could happen.

Edited by Utilyan, 06 April 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[Vermaxx]

The scale is also off in MWO, humans are not that small as compared to mechs. A mech cockpit is not proportionally large than a human based on the mech weight, a cockpit is always cramped and barely adequate for an average person. Those diagrams suggest humans are comfortably contained in a mech cockpit like it is Metal Gear or something.

The elementals versus mech helps a bit. Granted, their pilots are seven to eight feet tall, but it helps get things a bit clearer.

Edited by Vermaxx, 06 April 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

The scale is VERY off in MWO. That is a conversation had many times in these forums. The Catapult in particular, followed by the Centy are probably the most egregious, sadly the Treb ybfoows the Cents lead. The Atlas is WAAAY to tall, period, as it is not even the tallest Mech, and CGL stated that the TALLEST is all of 14 meters.

So yeah, bad scale, hence "my scale" on the chart, but I'm basing it off MWOs scale. I agree an Urbie is not half the height of a Hunchback. The Spider is similar in height, but 5 tons heavier, so it is what it is. In more the Urbie is commonly referred to its very short, squat nature.

And as for the snide comment, I was responding in kind to 2 antagonistic comments by you. Perhaps i misread the intent. If so, i apologize.

[Ph30nix]

dude if ytou know how to do 3d modeling GET ON IT, you have already done about 1/2 of the work if you throw in the 3d modeling (preferably using cryeng 3) the only thing left for PGI would be to put in the hit boxes lol.

i find it kinda sad though that one guy with some passion has done all this yet it takes months and "large expenses" for them to make a mech?


part of me thinks the issue is more they dont have the people to have guys dedicated 100% to mechs. which for that i blame IGP.

wish they would release tools for player base to design maps/mech's people then submit them (could even have aspecial forum section for it and let people vote on the designs, then PGI just checks the best rated and uses those.

[Rippthrough]

With a 60 rated engine you'll spend as much time trying to find room for all the double heatsinks you need to fit as you do picking weapons...

[Bishop Steiner]

Very true, DHS would be a HUGE issue. That's 24 crits and the legs, head and ct are off limits. 4 per torso, or 3 per torso and 1 per arm. Doesn't leave much room for anything else.

[ho1mes]

v1 looks pretty cool.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agreed. Cockpits are silly large on some of these. The lights seem pretty ok tho

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 April 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

@Strurm

Disagree with OP. Only way any would be OP is if multiple were combined.
360 rotation would be the only way Urbie could remotely fight off another light mech.
Crazy arm arc was simply saying if it can't rotate, give it something to compensate
Nyou totally misread the JJ statement. I NEVER said give it superior JJ to the Spider.
I DID use the Spider and Highlander as examples of non canon JJ use ingame, as no level 1 Spider can Mont 12 JJ, nor do any Highlanders mount 5. Hence, if THEY can break canon, why not let a mech like the Urbie, who NEEDS to be able to hop over buildings and fight rooftops 4-6 JJ INSTEAD of the 2 that by the current MWO mechanics, would be useless.
As for the Engine, PGI doesn't even currentlynMAKE one small enough for stock. And we have seen several areas like the YLW and Centys where they fudged engine caps as a quirk. Hence, instead of limiting an aUrbie to an 85 rated engine, and 48 kph max, are you really saying allowing up to a 120, and a 64 kph speed if go into make a 30 ton mech OP, particularly one that isnsingluarly I'll armed for fighting other light mechs?

I disagree - a 360-degree torso twist is not "the only way [an UrbanMech] could remotely fight off another light ['Mech]".
As evidence: every 'Mech in MWO thus far, including the light 'Mechs, lacks a 360-degree torso twist; the nearest thus far, IIRC, is the Catapult with its ~144-degree torso twist (72 degrees to either side).
Yet, every one of them, including the other Light 'Mechs, is capable of fighting off a Light 'Mech ("cheese builds" not withstanding).

The arms lack the Lower Arm Actuators, and so should have little/no horizontal actuation. That the 'Mech in question happens to be the UrbanMech has no bearing on that.

The original statement with regard to the Jump Jets was: "Jump lift off faster than a Spider, and a better jump fuel supply."
A "better jump fuel supply" would generally equate to one or both of (1) more altitude or horizontal distance with each jump, or (2) more "air time" with each jump - one is either going higher & further or staying airborne longer, or both.
Combining that with greater acceleration ("Jump lift off faster than a Spider"), there is little to "misread" from the original statement - it is a rather straightforward suggestion/request for "performance superior to that of the Spider".

While the base Spider variants are able to mount more Jump Jets, each of them starts (that is, comes stock) with the normal number of Jump Jets.The Highlander variants will very likely be the same - each would start with three, but be able to mount more (likely up to five). Similarly, each UrbanMech variant should start with the stock number of Jump Jets, with the chassis itself possibly(?) being able to accommodate more.

The Yen Lo Wang is a bit of an edge case, as the canon loadout accounts for its long nail-weapons by listing them as a hatchet (which takes up a certain amount of mass), so changes were made to accommodate the absent melee weapon (specifically, starting the 'Mech with a STD 215 rather than the STD 200).
And even though the other Centurion variants may have had their maximum potential engine ratings increased, each of them still starts with the canonically-correct engine (a STD 200 for the CN9-A and CN9-AL, and a 300 XL for the CN9-D).
Unless and until PGI implements engines with ratings down to 60, the UrbanMech wouldn't be able to start with its correct setup.

[Bishop Steiner]

aNd those other mechs don't move at 32 kph.

Also fuel does NOT imply a longer jump. One can still cap jump elevation. What more fuel would do is allow for multiple jumps before they need to recharge. Also the STOCK Highlander should kount 3 jj for 6 tons, yet Heavy Metal mounts 5 for 10. And as you stated, the spider stock has 8, but has the ABILTY to mount 12. I don't recall saying it should COME with 4-6, but the ABILITY to do so.

Also, as pgi has shown repeatedly, no mech does something.... UNTIL PGI DECIDES TO LET IT. Like Cicafas, Commando and Atlas with ecm, spider with 12 jump, etc. Just because it has not been done YET, does not mean it cannot be done.