6 replies to this topic

[Rhialto]

If I equip my mech with an ECM module, am I wasting slots and tonnage by adding an AMS? Will the AMS serve me in some situations?

Thanks

[loliza]

unless u run atlas d-dc then yes its a waste of tonnage since most srms are engaged under 200m wich is the min range of ams and you wont be targetable by lrm's so rather put that tonnage to better use

[Koniving]

Rhialto, on 07 April 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

If I equip my mech with an ECM module, am I wasting slots and tonnage by adding an AMS? Will the AMS serve me in some situations?

Thanks

Depends. AMS does shoot at streaks, so if you plan to do a light of anti-light fighting or find them to be a problem, it could help you turn the tables. Particularly handy for Cicadas who desperately need all the help they can get. Not as needed on lighter mechs, but it helps.

[mailin]

AMS can be useful, but it's best used in certain situations. The only ECM that I have it on is a DDC. AMS will still fire to take down missiles aimed at any friendly, not just yourself. Also, if you someone TAGs you from outside of your ECM bubble, you will then be targetable by enemy lrms, in which case AMS can come in handy. The main issue for many ECM carriers with AMS is that on anything lighter than an Atlas it is weight that can be better used other places. Remember that you need to buy ammo for AMS too. That's a ton and a half that can be used for another heatsink, streak ammo, bigger engine, armor, or better/more powerful weapons. Any of which are generally more important and a better spend of the weight than AMS.

[Konril]

ECM is not a 100% counter to LRMs. Yes, as long as it is just LRMs vs. ECM the active ECM can prevent LRMs from locking on to begin with by preventing targeting. However there are counters. TAG's biggest feature currently is the ability to punch through ECM and light up one mech. Active ECM will still slow down a missile lock, making it a bit harder on the enemy. But once the enemy has a lock, all they need is to keep the tag on you for their missiles to have full effect.

Anti Missile systems don't completely block anything bigger than an LRM5. However they do have the advantage of not really being counterable like ECM is. If missiles are locked onto either you or a teammate nearby, the Anti-missile system will shoot at least some of them down in flight. For an Atlas-DC, this is potentially a huge help since their slow speed makes them really vulnerable to being tagged from a distance.

If it's a Cicada or any ECM capable light mech, the answer is not so clear cut. Frankly, the really fast mechs have some ability to "outrun" LRMs. Not quite literally, since even the fastest lights aren't faster than 150 kph while LRMs travel at a speed of 360 kph in flight. But pretty much the best defense against LRMs you have is the environment. Move fast enough and those LRMs are more likely to hit a hill or building before they hit you. Lights are also faster at getting into minimum range or getting outside of maximum range. For these reasons, the Anti-missile system on top of ECM is a harder choice to make. The AMS does help against LRMs if you have it, most missile boats are likely to prioritize the bigger targets first, so you probably aren't going to get shot with them as often.

[Koniving]

Konril, on 08 April 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

ECM is not a 100% counter to LRMs. Yes, as long as it is just LRMs vs. ECM the active ECM can prevent LRMs from locking on to begin with by preventing targeting. However there are counters. TAG's biggest feature currently is the ability to punch through ECM and light up one mech. Active ECM will still slow down a missile lock, making it a bit harder on the enemy. But once the enemy has a lock, all they need is to keep the tag on you for their missiles to have full effect.

Anti Missile systems don't completely block anything bigger than an LRM5. However they do have the advantage of not really being counterable like ECM is. If missiles are locked onto either you or a teammate nearby, the Anti-missile system will shoot at least some of them down in flight. For an Atlas-DC, this is potentially a huge help since their slow speed makes them really vulnerable to being tagged from a distance.

If it's a Cicada or any ECM capable light mech, the answer is not so clear cut. Frankly, the really fast mechs have some ability to "outrun" LRMs. Not quite literally, since even the fastest lights aren't faster than 150 kph while LRMs travel at a speed of 360 kph in flight. But pretty much the best defense against LRMs you have is the environment. Move fast enough and those LRMs are more likely to hit a hill or building before they hit you. Lights are also faster at getting into minimum range or getting outside of maximum range. For these reasons, the Anti-missile system on top of ECM is a harder choice to make. The AMS does help against LRMs if you have it, most missile boats are likely to prioritize the bigger targets first, so you probably aren't going to get shot with them as often.

There is an unofficial counter to AMS, actually. Single and twin tube launchers for LRMs with any size LRM counter will keep the AMS very, very busy as it tries to shoot down every single missile. It'll do so very inefficiently, firing at the same rate it would for one missile at a time as it would against an entire salvo. 1 ton of AMS ammo can be efficiently consumed in the enemy's favor simply by spamming one or two LRM 20's through a NARC Missile Beacon tube. 3 to 4 salvos of smaller LRM launchers through single tube launchers can do the same thing, leaving the enemy virtually defenseless.

Now, my advice on using AMS was based less on LRMs, and more on the immediate threat to any size mech, the Streak Short Range Missile. Even if the missiles are not destroyed, the damage dealt by streaks is in fact reduced if they are damaged by AMS. (In-house Zhizhu Testing shows that you need at least 200 meters distance to have a noticeable change in Streak damage when fired upon by AMS, anything closer and the damage reduction is not noticeable but may still be present. Need 257 meters distance to shoot down 1 Streak due to their speed.)

AMS deals 1 damage per second. Each missile whether Streak or LRM, has 1 health. It's a shame you can't use machine guns to help the AMS, or streak a laser through the air. Back when AMS was manual fire I'd throw lasers into the air at the same time in hopes of taking down extra missiles.

[Aym]

Short answer yes you are wasting tonnage/crit slots (and potential ammo explosions).
In some situations AMS can help you even if you have ECM, at almost no time will it be worth the tonnage/crits that could be better spent on weapons, heat sinks, bigger engine, or more armor.