114 replies to this topic

[Thuzel]

I just had a wake up call and thought I'd share in case anyone is bored. Hopefully PGI will see it as well, but who knows...

I am as big a BT / Mechwarrior fanboy as they come. I've loved it since I was introduced to the second edition boxed set, and I've spent more time than I care to remember playing every single BT based game that's been released in america. I've even got a boxed set of Solaris VII in my closet and the original Mechwarrior PC game set up in DOSbox.

So, when I decided I had a little money to spare tonight, I considered spending it on MWO. But that thought only lasted about 10 seconds. Instead, I went and bought a $60 founders pack for neverwinter. Now, before I say anything else, I just want to say that I also bought into Star Trek Online when it first released, and that turned out to be a trainwreck. It was utterly horrible. The ground combat was less fun than getting a cavity filled.... And it was developed by cryptic studios, the same people working on neverwinter.

I still spent money on neverwinter instead of MWO because, when it's all said and done, even if it's bad it's almost certainly going to be a better investment than MWO. So, PGI, please shape up. I really want a viable and current BT game on the market, but as it stands right now, this just isn't. But even if you don't get it perfect, good enough will suffice. My willingness to give cryptic a second chance should speak to that.

Here are a few suggestions (feel free to ignore them):

1. Start working on consistency. This includes your patch releases as well as your customer communications. Patches being released during the beta phase are expected to have some bugs, but what we've seen over the last 12 months indicate huge gaping holes in your testing procedure in pre-release. Also, when you want to communicate to your customers, try to do so in a consistent manner. It doesn't matter where you post your message, just pick some place and stick to it. Even after you added the hot topic heatsink, it only took a couple of days before messages that should have gone there were going somewhere else, and that's only the latest example.

2. Work with the forums, not against them. I understand there's a lot of negativity floating around right now, but a lot of that sentiment has been brought on by your own actions. Regardless, these are the people who would happily be the fuel and fire for your game if you let them, so let them. Tell them what your working on, or where the game is going. Try not to shut them out. Also, don't release deadlines unless you are prepared to meet them or to be close to them, or failing that, tell us what's going on when they're missed.

3. Don't pay heed to only the squeaky wheel. There are a handful of extremely vocal members here, and it honestly feels as though they get more than a fair bit of attention. They don't represent the majority of your customers (Just as I probably don't either), so using their input as a weighted guide would be a mistake. Instead, start asking the customers directly for their input outside of the forums. Feel free to place polls in the actual game client, or ask for input from the game instead of the forum.

Now, all that being said, I want to congratulate you on the work you've done to date. I know you don't have a large shop, so it is impressive that you've come this far in only a year or so. A lot of people are really enjoying this game, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

[TehSBGX]

Well said OP.

[Iron Hyena]

You *****, PGI is already doing all of these things.

Welcome to a beta game run by a small company.

I remember league of legends, when everytime it would patch, it ****** the game so bad you couldnt log in for a FULL WEEK,

They do work with the forums, and they do listen to us, TO AN EXTENT. They don't cater to every whiney, snot nosed little troll that cries here, and they shouldnt.

There are a lot of vocal and popular people on the forums, and almost everything they want isnt being done either, because they are not part of the company either, and PGI is doing what it thinks is best, and most effective. It is run by professionals who are actually experienced in doing things like marketing, and balancing, and programming.

You are a player, thats it, you put forward a few dollars and got your times worth already. If you didnt, then you played the game for free and have nothing to ***** about.

[I am]

Dornhal, on 07 April 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

It is run by professionals who are actually experienced in doing things like marketing, and balancing, and programming.

Can you give a specific example of this, or are you making it up?

[Thuzel]

Dornhal, on 07 April 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

You *****, PGI is already doing all of these things.

Welcome to a beta game run by a small company.

I remember league of legends, when everytime it would patch, it ****** the game so bad you couldnt log in for a FULL WEEK,

They do work with the forums, and they do listen to us, TO AN EXTENT. They don't cater to every whiney, snot nosed little troll that cries here, and they shouldnt.

There are a lot of vocal and popular people on the forums, and almost everything they want isnt being done either, because they are not part of the company either, and PGI is doing what it thinks is best, and most effective. It is run by professionals who are actually experienced in doing things like marketing, and balancing, and programming.

You are a player, thats it, you put forward a few dollars and got your times worth already. If you didnt, then you played the game for free and have nothing to ***** about.

Don't confuse bitching with feedback.

I understand my position perfectly well. I'm just providing my observations and opinions, which is why we are all here, to make the game better.

[Roadbeer]

Dornhal, on 07 April 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

You are a player, thats it, you put forward a few dollars and got your times worth already. If you didnt, then you played the game for free and have nothing to ***** about.

Pssst, hey, he's a Founder too. Just sayin.

[Sir Trent Howell]

TL;DR: I was going to spend money on a video game but I chose another one over MWO for various reasons that may or may not be true and felt I was important enough to have people on the internet care but turned out to be sorely wrong.

[wolf74]

I feel sorry for you thuzel, I goto try NWNonline for about 48 due to the I too had a life time for star trek online. They through d&d out the window with it, highest lvl 60, A level 1 mage that use magic missile like bullets in a WWII spitfire fighter aircraft.

Edited by wolf74, 07 April 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Thuzel]

Roadbeer, on 07 April 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

I didn't read it, but I remember this one time I was in Vegas, I slept through about 4 wakeup calls before housekeeping came in, boy that was embarrassing. I wonder if the statute of limitations has expired.

They're usually pretty understanding about that stuff... Unless you... suggested... something

[Roadbeer]

wolf74, on 07 April 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

A level 1 mage that use magic missile like bullets in a WWII spitfire fighter aircraft.

[Ihasa]

You know it's bad when people (op is by far the first) start admitting to leaving this game for a Cryptic one (any Cryptic one).

But really, it's not like Cryptic does any of the things you mention either, OP. Greener pastures are not greener, etc., etc. That's what I thought when leaving STO for here. In fact, Cryptic is just one patch away from installing an app that makes your phone do a reach around directly for your wallet without your permission, and If you try to deny such permission will send an electronic hand to reach straight for your wallet through your throat right from your gaming screen.

To call Cryptic professionals sets a really, really low bar because they are anything but.

Edited by Ihasa, 07 April 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Tennex]

they are becoming more organized
patches are bimonthly. QandA are weekly and Monthly updates are well.. monthly (so much better than before. god you should have seen the tears)

and i completleyl agree that the forums should not be treated like the enemy. The customer is always right. people say that because the customer is your source of income and essentially your boss.

pissng off your boss will get you as far in real life as pissng off the player base in a online game.

Edited by Tennex, 07 April 2013 - 06:02 PM.

[DCLXVI]

Dornhal, on 07 April 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

You *****, PGI is already doing all of these things.

Welcome to a beta game run by a small company.

I remember league of legends, when everytime it would patch, it ****** the game so bad you couldnt log in for a FULL WEEK,

They do work with the forums, and they do listen to us, TO AN EXTENT. They don't cater to every whiney, snot nosed little troll that cries here, and they shouldnt.

There are a lot of vocal and popular people on the forums, and almost everything they want isnt being done either, because they are not part of the company either, and PGI is doing what it thinks is best, and most effective. It is run by professionals who are actually experienced in doing things like marketing, and balancing, and programming.

You are a player, thats it, you put forward a few dollars and got your times worth already. If you didnt, then you played the game for free and have nothing to ***** about.

no they arnt you little [redacted]

Edited by Niko Snow, 08 April 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Thuzel]

wolf74, on 07 April 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

I feel sorry for you thuzel, I goto try NWNonline for about 48 due to the I too had a life time for star trek online. They through d&d out the window with it, highest lvl 60, A level 1 mage that use magic missile like bullets in a WWII spitfire fighter aircraft.

Yeah, thanks for that.

I'm treating it like gambling money. If I get something out of it, I'll be pleasantly surprised. If not... well it was worth a shot.

[Davers]

Thuzel, on 07 April 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

I just had a wake up call and thought I'd share in case anyone is bored. Hopefully PGI will see it as well, but who knows...

I am as big a BT / Mechwarrior fanboy as they come. I've loved it since I was introduced to the second edition boxed set, and I've spent more time than I care to remember playing every single BT based game that's been released in america. I've even got a boxed set of Solaris VII in my closet and the original Mechwarrior PC game set up in DOSbox.

So, when I decided I had a little money to spare tonight, I considered spending it on MWO. But that thought only lasted about 10 seconds. Instead, I went and bought a $60 founders pack for neverwinter. Now, before I say anything else, I just want to say that I also bought into Star Trek Online when it first released, and that turned out to be a trainwreck. It was utterly horrible. The ground combat was less fun than getting a cavity filled.... And it was developed by cryptic studios, the same people working on neverwinter.

I still spent money on neverwinter instead of MWO because, when it's all said and done, even if it's bad it's almost certainly going to be a better investment than MWO. So, PGI, please shape up. I really want a viable and current BT game on the market, but as it stands right now, this just isn't. But even if you don't get it perfect, good enough will suffice. My willingness to give cryptic a second chance should speak to that.

Here are a few suggestions (feel free to ignore them):

1. Start working on consistency. This includes your patch releases as well as your customer communications. Patches being released during the beta phase are expected to have some bugs, but what we've seen over the last 12 months indicate huge gaping holes in your testing procedure in pre-release. Also, when you want to communicate to your customers, try to do so in a consistent manner. It doesn't matter where you post your message, just pick some place and stick to it. Even after you added the hot topic heatsink, it only took a couple of days before messages that should have gone there were going somewhere else, and that's only the latest example.

2. Work with the forums, not against them. I understand there's a lot of negativity floating around right now, but a lot of that sentiment has been brought on by your own actions. Regardless, these are the people who would happily be the fuel and fire for your game if you let them, so let them. Tell them what your working on, or where the game is going. Try not to shut them out. Also, don't release deadlines unless you are prepared to meet them or to be close to them, or failing that, tell us what's going on when they're missed.

3. Don't pay heed to only the squeaky wheel. There are a handful of extremely vocal members here, and it honestly feels as though they get more than a fair bit of attention. They don't represent the majority of your customers (Just as I probably don't either), so using their input as a weighted guide would be a mistake. Instead, start asking the customers directly for their input outside of the forums. Feel free to place polls in the actual game client, or ask for input from the game instead of the forum.

Now, all that being said, I want to congratulate you on the work you've done to date. I know you don't have a large shop, so it is impressive that you've come this far in only a year or so. A lot of people are really enjoying this game, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

1. Most games advertise through multiple sources. Many websites want 'exclusives'. It isn't in their best interest to just deal with only one source.

2+3 The Forums ARE the squeaky wheel. And the Devs are right to completely ignore them in many cases.

If MWO was only worth 10 seconds of thought to decide it isn't worth funding, why did you even bother to post? I think I hear a wheel squeaking...

[Roadbeer]

Thuzel, on 07 April 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Yeah, thanks for that.

I'm treating it like gambling money. If I get something out of it, I'll be pleasantly surprised. If not... well it was worth a shot.

Still, would have preferred if you had spent it here.
I know I troll PGI a lot, but I'm still hoping for the day when I MOD my cardreader on my PC so I can just leave my CC in it for PGI to take what they want.

[Thuzel]

Davers, on 07 April 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

1. Most games advertise through multiple sources. Many websites want 'exclusives'. It isn't in their best interest to just deal with only one source.

2+3 The Forums ARE the squeaky wheel. And the Devs are right to completely ignore them in many cases.

If MWO was only worth 10 seconds of thought to decide it isn't worth funding, why did you even bother to post? I think I hear a wheel squeaking...

Actually, no, I'm just one voice among many and I'll be the first to admit that. The reason I posted is because I was bored (it was more fun than playing MWO sadly), and because I really really do want this game to succeed.

Roadbeer, on 07 April 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Still, would have preferred if you had spent it here.
I know I troll PGI a lot, but I'm still hoping for the day when I MOD my cardreader on my PC so I can just leave my CC in it for PGI to take what they want.

Me too! I'm a raving BT/MW fanatic... but when I thought about it I just couldn't do it. There are too many things I don't like about the current direction of the game to put more money into it. I didn't list any of those, either. Didn't want to muddy the waters even more.

DCLXVI, on 07 April 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

snoodling poofter

lol, excellent

[Kiiyor]

Thuzel, on 07 April 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

I just had a wake up call and thought I'd share in case anyone is bored. Hopefully PGI will see it as well, but who knows...

I am as big a BT / Mechwarrior fanboy as they come. I've loved it since I was introduced to the second edition boxed set, and I've spent more time than I care to remember playing every single BT based game that's been released in america. I've even got a boxed set of Solaris VII in my closet and the original Mechwarrior PC game set up in DOSbox.

So, when I decided I had a little money to spare tonight, I considered spending it on MWO. But that thought only lasted about 10 seconds. Instead, I went and bought a $60 founders pack for neverwinter. Now, before I say anything else, I just want to say that I also bought into Star Trek Online when it first released, and that turned out to be a trainwreck. It was utterly horrible. The ground combat was less fun than getting a cavity filled.... And it was developed by cryptic studios, the same people working on neverwinter.

I still spent money on neverwinter instead of MWO because, when it's all said and done, even if it's bad it's almost certainly going to be a better investment than MWO. So, PGI, please shape up. I really want a viable and current BT game on the market, but as it stands right now, this just isn't. But even if you don't get it perfect, good enough will suffice. My willingness to give cryptic a second chance should speak to that.

Here are a few suggestions (feel free to ignore them):

1. Start working on consistency. This includes your patch releases as well as your customer communications. Patches being released during the beta phase are expected to have some bugs, but what we've seen over the last 12 months indicate huge gaping holes in your testing procedure in pre-release. Also, when you want to communicate to your customers, try to do so in a consistent manner. It doesn't matter where you post your message, just pick some place and stick to it. Even after you added the hot topic heatsink, it only took a couple of days before messages that should have gone there were going somewhere else, and that's only the latest example.

2. Work with the forums, not against them. I understand there's a lot of negativity floating around right now, but a lot of that sentiment has been brought on by your own actions. Regardless, these are the people who would happily be the fuel and fire for your game if you let them, so let them. Tell them what your working on, or where the game is going. Try not to shut them out. Also, don't release deadlines unless you are prepared to meet them or to be close to them, or failing that, tell us what's going on when they're missed.

3. Don't pay heed to only the squeaky wheel. There are a handful of extremely vocal members here, and it honestly feels as though they get more than a fair bit of attention. They don't represent the majority of your customers (Just as I probably don't either), so using their input as a weighted guide would be a mistake. Instead, start asking the customers directly for their input outside of the forums. Feel free to place polls in the actual game client, or ask for input from the game instead of the forum.

Now, all that being said, I want to congratulate you on the work you've done to date. I know you don't have a large shop, so it is impressive that you've come this far in only a year or so. A lot of people are really enjoying this game, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

IMHO, Point 2 and 3 are contrary to each other. You cannot work closer with these forums without pandering to the squeaky wheel that these forums actually are.

[Davers]

Thuzel, on 07 April 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Actually, no, I'm just one voice among many and I'll be the first to admit that. The reason I posted is because I was bored (it was more fun than playing MWO sadly), and because I really really do want this game to succeed.



Me too! I'm a raving BT/MW fanatic... but when I thought about it I just couldn't do it. There are too many things I don't like about the current direction of the game to put more money into it. I didn't list any of those, either. Didn't want to muddy the waters even more.

It might have cleared the water a bit more that "I will not support this game until they reorganize their forums" or "You should listen to the Forums, but not really since they represent such a small portion of the players."

[Thuzel]

Kiiyor, on 07 April 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

IMHO, Point 2 and 3 are contrary to each other. You cannot work closer with these forums without pandering to the squeaky wheel that these forums actually are.

Great point, but it's worth noting that "working with" doesn't necessarily mean "agreeing with". I'd rather PGI actually address more of the forum's ideas, even if they reject them. It's better than just ignoring them all.