63 replies to this topic

[Terror Teddy]

Since the MG's in your view of the battletech universe cannot damage wet tissue paper even though it is based upon a weapon that had equivalent damage of the ac/2 what suggestion do you have for ballistic light mechs in the way of useful close combat ballistic weapons that can actually HARM another enemy?

Since you have effectively neutered the equivalent of a small laser for light mechs that dont have the tonnage to have heavier ballistics what do you suggest we carry that can damage enemies without gimping our entire build?

EDIT

And dont tell me you are afraid of MG boating - have you SEEN what people run around with at a regular basis? You cannot say with a serious face that MG boating is a danger to the game or balance.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 08 April 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Much better argument than the other thread on this topic.

I'll pay attention to this one and see how it goes.

[Training Instructor]

Cicada 3C and Spider 5K never should have been available as variants if PGI wasn't prepared to make machine guns useful. Some people want to be able to run fast and harass, not troll people with a laughably ineffective gauss spider.

[TwigTech]

I'm very curious about this as well. Thanks for bringing up the question, it's disappointing to have some of my favorite light mechs rendered utterly useless by ballistic limitations. Honestly, if the Spider 5k just had some viable alternative to the machine gun I'd have kept it around.

Edited by TwigTech, 08 April 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[Tennex]

critical health is a horrible balancing mechanic.
it only accounts for 1/3 of a mech's healtsh since double armor. And god knows everybody focuses the person with a stripped component.

On paper it sounds good. but in practice critical health has no play

Edited by Tennex, 08 April 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[stjobe]

It's utterly mindboggling that they can say with a straight face that the MG is working as intended, or that they're happy with where it is right now.

The only explanation I can think of is that nobody at PGI has ever dropped with MGs. Ever. It only takes half a match to see how completely pathetic the MGs are.

And it's not like the SDR-5K or RVN-4X can just slap in something else. The CDA-3C might be able to do it, but not the lights.
A single AC/2 might fit, but not much of anything else.

[Tennex]

keep these up. they said they listen to trends. not individual posts. and right now we got like 2 of these going lol

[SirLANsalot]

MG's are not meant to be used alone, nor are they supposed to be OP guns like back in the days of earlier MW games. The AC2 is the anti mech MG that people are looking for in the MG. For lights, sets of 4 or more MGs will do damage but it takes time, thats where like on the SDR-5K you take a LL and the MG's and crit enemy mechs into submission.

[Skyfaller]

Terror Teddy, on 08 April 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Since the MG's in your view of the battletech universe cannot damage wet tissue paper even though it is based upon a weapon that had equivalent damage of the ac/2 what suggestion do you have for ballistic light mechs in the way of useful close combat ballistic weapons that can actually HARM another enemy?

Since you have effectively neutered the equivalent of a small laser for light mechs that dont have the tonnage to have heavier ballistics what do you suggest we carry that can damage enemies without gimping our entire build?

You're supposed to load a Gauss rifle on the 5K didn't you know that?

[Tennex]

SirLANsalot, on 08 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

MG's are not meant to be used alone, nor are they supposed to be OP guns like back in the days of earlier MW games. The AC2 is the anti mech MG that people are looking for in the MG. For lights, sets of 4 or more MGs will do damage but it takes time, thats where like on the SDR-5K you take a LL and the MG's and crit enemy mechs into submission.

i'm sorry do you play light ballistic mechs?

[Avimimus]

Well...
- In 7 years we get the UAC2 (only one ton more for twice the firepower)
- In 8 years we get the LBX-AC2.
- In 9 years we'll get the hypervelocity version (8 tons)
- In 12 years we'll get the rotary version (8 tons)
- In 16 years we'll also get the light and heavy versions of the machine guns.
- In a mere 18 years we'll get the Light AC2 (only 4 tons)! We'll also get the ability to put machine guns in arrays at this time (2-4 machine guns on one rack).
- In 23 years we'll get protomech autocannons.

So my best suggestion - campaign for the light and medium rifles:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_Rifle
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Medium_Rifle

Both are cheaper than AC2 and do more damage (albeit with fewer rounds per ton and a low rate of fire).

Edited by Avimimus, 08 April 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[Noobzorz]

Roadbeer, on 08 April 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Much better argument than the other thread on this topic.

I'll pay attention to this one and see how it goes.

Roadbeer, on 08 April 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Much better argument than the other thread on this topic.

I'll pay attention to this one and see how it goes.

I really fail to see how this topic is different. In any case, both topics imply that the MGs are trash, which is accurate.

[Side Step]

I'm kind of tired of arguing for underpowered weapons to be buffed about now.

It's painfully obvious which weapons are good and which aren't. Yet, someone always seem to be vocal about how every weapon is fine the way it is.

Edited by Side Step, 08 April 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

Tennex, on 08 April 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

i'm sorry do you play light ballistic mechs?

I have, there fun.


MG's might be more useful for taking out mechs with Reflective armor (once it comes) as it would tear it up much faster then a normal ballistic might. Also MG's are anti infantry, something this game may come out with in PvE.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Terror Teddy, on 08 April 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Since the MG's in your view of the battletech universe cannot damage wet tissue paper even though it is based upon a weapon that had equivalent damage of the ac/2 what suggestion do you have for ballistic light mechs in the way of useful close combat ballistic weapons that can actually HARM another enemy?

Since you have effectively neutered the equivalent of a small laser for light mechs that dont have the tonnage to have heavier ballistics what do you suggest we carry that can damage enemies without gimping our entire build?

The flaw in this is your title.

If PGI thinks MG's are working as intended (WAI) then light mechs should obviously take....MG's.

[stjobe]

Avimimus, on 08 April 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

So my best suggestion - campaign for the light and medium rifles:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_Rifle
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Medium_Rifle

Both are cheaper than AC2 and do more damage (albeit with fewer rounds per ton and a low rate of fire).

All Rifles have -3 damage versus 'mechs, so the Light Rifle is actually unable to damage 'mechs (it does 3 damage vs non-'mechs, and 0 vs 'mechs).

So no, I'll continue to campaign for a viable MG until PGI sees reason.

[Deathlike]

I threw the gauntlet down:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2206947

But seriously... I want to know the answer to the question. Is the AC2 popular enough for anything serious on a light mech?

[Leimrey]

PGI needs to fix the AC/2 rate of fire bug so that it's 2 shots per second with a DPS of 4 (gauss has only 3.75) again. Only then will lighter ballistic oriented mechs like the cicada 3C or the Spider K will become something more than a complete waste of tonnage.

[DrSecretStache]

I must admit, it perturbs me that they consider MG as properly implemented. The argument the OP brings up makes it pretty clear: it gimps light mechs that are shoe-horned into it. I would bet real money that given the hardpoint and tonnage choices, people would choose 2ML over 2mg and 1ton ammo, every time. Or even 4sl, if you want to go there. And there's darn good reason.

There's so many reason why I can think of that this isn't good balancing:
1. Any other light mech that isn't shoe-horned into MGs can have a decent time if it's the last mech standing. Not so otherwise.
2. Not only does a mg loadout prevent light v light combat in such mechs, it prevents them from doing so if they wanted to. You have to switch to another chassis to fight lights, which can also equip weaponry for other uses.
3. Light mechs with these hardpoint issues can't equip anything else. Maybe an ac2, but that's pushing it. No other hardpoint has this problem.
4.crits are only useful toward the end of a fight. Thus, you are useless at the beginning of a fight. No other mech is useless at the beginning of a fight (re:all other mechs typically equip something more than 1ml or 1ll).
4.a. this use is debatable, all considered. crit seeking is all well and good, but 10 dependable damage from ml is typically better.
5. Bryan mentions that mg don't use heat, but consider that 2ml, the equivalent weight scale of 2mg with 1ton ammo, will net no heat if using engine (or a combo of 10) double heat sinks, which is required of all mechs. The argument only applies to mechs that can equip other weapons, which is basically not the spider/cicada.
6. This makes mg lights the only mechs that must rely on other mechs to do damage for them. There's only so much a LL can do.

I seriously hope they think long and hard on this decision.

Edited by Zoughtbaj, 08 April 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

What makes you think they will fix MG's after all the crap we've gone through for ECM?

Unless you can get the entire forums to explode, PGI doesn't listen.