15 replies to this topic

[mikerso]

I am a long time PUG player. I also enjoy COD:Black Ops 2. They can both be fun games, but why does COD win on the popularity scale? It allows new players to excel. New players start this game in the pug matches. Just like all of us they come from the trenches of the game. The pug matches are simply put, chaotic. There is no way to organize them through typing. Pugs are handicapped, and the premade groups are destroying them.

solution:
Get a real in game voice chat. The C3 integration is crap. It only works if you are in a premade. stop relying on other voice chat companies to do your dirty work. it is like putting a band-aid on a bullet hole. PUG players are frustrated and tired of getting owned. The premade groups will never let them in because their stats are low.

In short, if you want to compete give pug players a chance to win. Give them a voice chat that they can drop in and use with each other. Until this is done you will continue to lose money, and PUG matches will continue to push away new players.

[ssm]

mikerso, on 08 April 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

I am a long time PUG player. I also enjoy COD:Black Ops 2. They can both be fun games, but why does COD win on the popularity scale? It allows new players to excel. New players start this game in the pug matches. Just like all of us they come from the trenches of the game. The pug matches are simply put, chaotic. There is no way to organize them through typing. Pugs are handicapped, and the premade groups are destroying them.

COD is higher on popularity scale not because it allows new players to excel (whatever this means), but because it's CoD.

I agree with you on one matter - that integrated VOIP would be nice thing to have. But lack of it won't affect the game in any meaningful way, because most players just won't use it. People are generally uncomfortable with talking with complete strangers on the internet, so even if devs themselves delivered shiny new mic to their doorstep, it would end up gathering dust in some drawer tangled with random cables.

Edited by ssm, 09 April 2013 - 07:12 AM.

[RoboPatton]

Well, you have training grounds now. Sure pugs are still chaotic, but Im a closed beta Vet and I can tell you, I get on fail teams just as often I'm sure.

Besides, not every COD match ends with everyone winning on both teams, c'mon.

[Zordicron]

I dnno. I am not sure i would use a built in voice. I would probably listen with mmy mic unplugged or muted though. So I guess I would use it that way.

As for premades, i am not sure why it is ok for a 4man to drop with 4 puggies, and then face a team of 8 puggies. IMO, 4mans should be against other 4mans. 8 puggies should be a puggie free for all with 8 pugs on both sides. Supposedly ELO is supposed to take care of that, but it doesnt really. You can tell when a 4man with voice is on the other team just by watching how they focus fire almost instantly on different targets. it is an advantage that is not countered right now.

[mikerso]

ssm, on 08 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

COD is higher on popularity scale not because it allows new players to excel (whatever this means), but because it CoD.

Perhaps it should have been worded as giving them a fighting chance.

ssm, on 08 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

I agree with you on one matter - that integrated VOIP would be nice thing to have. But lack of it won't affect the game in any meaningful way, because most players just won't use it.

I disagree with you on this one. Eldagore said it below:

Eldagore, on 08 April 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

I dnno. I am not sure i would use a built in voice. I would probably listen with my mic unplugged or muted though. So I guess I would use it that way.

RoboPatton, on 08 April 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Besides, not every COD match ends with everyone winning on both teams, c'mon.

Yes, but if players are given tools to help them it can make the playing field more level. Training grounds is a good start, but it is not a solution to helping PUGS beat premades.

Eldagore, on 08 April 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

As for premades, i am not sure why it is ok for a 4man to drop with 4 puggies, and then face a team of 8 puggies. IMO, 4mans should be against other 4mans. 8 puggies should be a puggie free for all with 8 pugs on both sides. Supposedly ELO is supposed to take care of that, but it doesnt really. You can tell when a 4man with voice is on the other team just by watching how they focus fire almost instantly on different targets. it is an advantage that is not countered right now.

This is what i am getting at. With in game voip not only could that 4 man communicate with the PUG players on their team, but the other team would also be able to communicate quicker I also agree that ELO is messed up.

Even if a player only listens to the other Players on his team it is already an instant help.

[Postumus]

mikerso, on 08 April 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

The premade groups will never let them in because their stats are low.

Give them a voice chat that they can drop in and use with each other. Until this is done you will continue to lose money, and PUG matches will continue to push away new players.

1. "premade groups" are not a vicious cabal of stat nazis. If you hop on North American ComStar, find a channel (they are called dropships) that has less than four people and join it, no one is going to say, "hey, hang on while I check your KDR." They are going to say "Hey, hows it going, let me send you an invite." People are generally thrilled (or at least don't care either way) about playing with new people, and everyone likes to give help and advice. Granted, if you are still getting your mech legs it isn't likely you're going to be offered a slot in a tourney, but for everyday pug play its strictly for fun.

2. NA and EU ComStar are up 24/7, free, and easy to use. It takes two clicks to open, two more to connect to the server, and two more to get yourself into a dropship channel, and you're done. No harder than logging in to MWO, readying up a mech and launching. Also, there is no requirement that you agree to dedicate hours of your time to the group - this is not an MMO raid. People don't care if you drop in a group for a couple games and bounce, this happens all day. If it means more people to play with, people are going to be glad you spent your few matches there.

Finally, if you look at games that have pervasive, built in voice communication, such at PS2, what you will see is that most players who can be bothered to set up a mic or care enough to talk to teammates are still going to use a 3rd party program like TS or Mumble. The voice quality is better, and you don't have to deal with Joe Mouthbreather or some *** that thinks running around shouting filth or broadcasting bad music is the height of comedy. Do you really want the contents of general chat broadcast into your living room?

Don't be afraid of teamspeak, and universal voice chat is not going to be a panacea for this game.

[Kiiyor]

ssm, on 08 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

COD is higher on popularity scale not because it allows new players to excel (whatever this means), but because it CoD.

I agree with you on one matter - that integrated VOIP would be nice thing to have. But lack of it won't affect the game in any meaningful way, because most players just won't use it. People are generally uncomfortable with talking with complete strangers on the internet, so even if devs themselves delivered shiny new mic to their doorstep, it would end up gathering dust in some drawer tangled with random cables.

Well said.

OP, there are also the alternatives of TS, VENT, or even freaking Skype. If you really want to talk to someone, pluck up the courage to download some software and look in the forums for TS groups.

Built in comms would be nice, but I daresay I would have it turned off, if the quality of chat typed in the game now is any indication.

[Deamonition]

mikerso, on 08 April 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

I am a long time PUG player. I also enjoy COD:Black Ops 2.

That is when I stopped reading.
MWO should NOT be like CoD.

[RoboPatton]

Postumus, on 08 April 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

1. "premade groups" are not a vicious cabal of stat nazis. If you hop on North American ComStar, find a channel (they are called dropships) that has less than four people and join it...

2. NA and EU ComStar are up 24/7, free, and easy to use. It takes two clicks to open...

Don't be afraid of teamspeak, and universal voice chat is not going to be a panacea for this game.

Yes, yes and yes. Try the comstar server. It's very useful. I hope that PGI looks to it for inspiration on how to handle the inevitable community features overhaul.

from: http://mwomercs.com/...ful-info-links/
Comstar Relay North America(Comstar NA) Available Slots: 512 Man TS3 server
Address: na1.mech-connect.net Password: WordofBlake

Edited by RoboPatton, 09 April 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Falconic]

ssm, on 08 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

But lack of it won't affect the game in any meaningful way, because most players just won't use it. People are generally uncomfortable with talking with complete strangers on the internet, so even if devs themselves delivered shiny new mic to their doorstep, it would end up gathering dust in some drawer tangled with random cables.

L4D2.... Proved your entire statement wrong. Pubs consistantly use/take advise over mics.

[neviu]

Stopped reading when i saw cod mentioned,

[Jack Lowe]

Yep I agree PuG groups are at a major disadvantage against a premade. Been that way since I joined back in closed beta. VOIP is a major advantage for a team. That however shouldn't be all that suprising, having faster, more reliable communications and access to battlefield information is at the heart of modern warfare today. Given two equally skilled teams, one team that is all on comms together and one that is not the team on comms will decimate the team without that ability that's just how much of an edge it provides.

I go on Comstar NA when it became available, EU was the original beta TS for awhile and I was there as well. Yes occasionally I would run into someone who was rude or nasty or just a pain in the butt, however this was very rare. The overwhelming majority are as has been said very friendly, very helpful and more than willing just pop in to any group that has less than 4 or somewhere between 4 and 8 and ask if they need a man. With very few acceptions the answer is , " come on in, what mech u like to run, run whatever u like we're just havin fun", " Oh your brand new, no big deal got any questions just ask we'll help you out".

No requirement to sign your life away, rejection because your stats are low or because "noob"s aren't welcome. That's all assumptions people make to keep themselves from trying it out. With that said sometimes you will find a group that's just breaking up, going to lunch and won't be dropping for awhile, or are waiting for another clanmate who will be joining shortly. That has happened, and you can take it at face value not as an excuse to get rid of the new guy. When a spot opens if I haven't found a group next thing I get is those same guys comin up askin if I"m still looking for a game. If you don't have a mic and just want to listen that is almost always ok as well.

MWO is really quite fortunate in that regard. It has one of the most friendly and helpful player bases I've seen in any online game out there. Anyone who fails to tap into this is really missing out on a new level of the game that increases fun and adds some freshness to playing the same ol' maps and modes. The OP is right voice chat is a game changer however he's wrong in the fact that he believes it's some kinda uber elite club that exludes or hates on new players or those of lesser skill. He's really missing out and I'd rather not allow his misassupmtion cause others to do the same.

[Volthorne]

mikerso, on 08 April 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Perhaps it should have been worded as giving them a fighting chance.

Because one-man-armies and dumb-blind-luck aren't dated as hell and dumber than a sack of bricks. Again, the only reason CoD is popular is because CoD. Not because it's a good game, or even REMOTELY fairly balanced.

Falconic, on 09 April 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

L4D2.... Proved your entire statement wrong. Pubs consistantly use/take advise over mics.

1) The built-in VOIP for the Source Engine is freaking awesome, which is incredibly rare.

2) There are only ever 8 people MAXIMUM in the same game.

3) The harder difficulties are near impossible to complete WITHOUT VOIP.

And those are just some flaws of YOUR argument.

Edited by Volthorne, 10 April 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Mechteric]

You know how many times I've heard people using the integrated comms in Call of Duty and Battlefield 3?

And how many of those times were actually tactical and not gibberish or music blasting or screaming?

practically none at all.


Now I do hope that more people will use it once it is properly integrated with MWO, but honestly its not a game breaker. There's teamspeak to get around that as we've been doing for years in the multitude of other multiplayer games that either don't provide integrated comms or just have terrible integrated comms.

[Lord Psycho]

I'm sure I don't need to here you talking about my mother over any kind of voice chat.

Please refrain from comparing MWO with ANYTHING.

If you don't understand something, maybe do your own research first please.

[Psydotek]

Volthorne, on 10 April 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

1) The built-in VOIP for the Source Engine is freaking awesome, which is incredibly rare.

And that is exactly what the developers need to be emulating if/when they implement voice chat. I play alot of Team Fortress 2 and voice chat is the easiest thing to use. More importantly, it's also extremely easy to mute players that are abusing the voice chat.