119 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

With the latest Ask the Devs 35 - Answers! we got told that the MG is fine where it is right now:

Quote

CCQ 3: Why is Machine Gun damage so low?
A: Partly due to the nature of how MGs work in the TT rules, partially due to how we chose to make it useful. When equipping a MG, keep in mind that it is not meant to burn through armor but is very useful for tearing up internals (crits). Bumping MG damage will turn it into a laser that can be kept on with no heat penalty until it runs out of ammo. Now imagine the devastating effect that a 6 MG spider could do to the back of an Atlas! We are still investigating balance of the MG but don’t expect any significant increase in damage.

Personally, I find this so far detached from the realities of the game I'm gobsmacked.

So, in an effort to find out if it's just me that sucks or if it is indeed so that it is the MG that sucks, let's see your MG stats. Here's mine:



Those stats were all from running a 4 MG SDR-5K from purchase through Basic.

Damage per match: 18.74
Damage per match per MG: 4.68

Incidentally, with my stats the "devastating effect" of a mythical 6 MG Spider would be 28.11 damage to the back of an Atlas...

So what's your MG stats?

EDIT: Please include your damage per match score; just divide total damage (last number) by matches played (first number). It's an eye-opener, hopefully.

EDIT 2: Also of interest is your effective DPS with the MG. In theory it should do 0.4 DPS, but how much can you make it do? Divide your total damage by shots fired, and then multiply by 10 and you get the answer. Mine is 0.18, or not even half the theoretical DPS.

Edited by stjobe, 08 April 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[Tennex]

i don't use MGs cuz their craap so...

[Tickdoff Tank]

I suck at screenshots and cropping.

24 games with MGs. 34,663 fired. 15,686 hit. 45.25% hit rate. 607 total damage.

25.291 per match. Which is 0.0387 per round fired.

Edited by Tickdoff Tank, 08 April 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[stjobe]

Tickdoff Tank, on 08 April 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

I suck at screenshots and cropping.

24 games with MGs. 34,663 fired. 15,686 hit. 45.25% hit rate. 607 total damage.

So you're a bit better than me at 25.29 damage per match.

If those stats were all with 4 MGs your mythical 6 MG Spider would do 37.93 "devastating" damage to the back of an Atlas...

Tickdoff Tank, on 08 April 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

25.291 per match. Which is 0.0387 per round fired.

Nah, it's 0.017 per projectile fired (or 0.17 effective DPS). Those 0.0387 is per projectile that hit.

Edited by stjobe, 08 April 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Why are we in a position where the devs believe the magic voodoo of crit.seeking is real?

[stjobe]

Vassago Rain, on 08 April 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Why are we in a position where the devs believe the magic voodoo of crit.seeking is real?

You tell me, Vass... You tell me. You've been here longer than I have, so perhaps you understand the mysterious ways of PGI better than I do. To me it's incomprehensible that anyone that actually had played the game with MGs even once would think that they were useful weapons.

Oh, and what's your MG stats?

Edited by stjobe, 08 April 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

stjobe, on 08 April 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

So you're a bit better than me at 25.29 damage per match.

If those stats were all with 4 MGs your mythical 6 MG Spider would do 37.93 "devastating" damage to the back of an Atlas...

To be fair, his "6 MG Spider" comment was also speaking to an increase in damage for MGs, he was trying (and failing, IMO) to showcase the danger of increasing the MGs base damage.

If they increased the MGs DPS to 1.2, which I think you and I are both in favor of, I would have done a whopping 113.79. (assuming a 6 MG mech)

Edited by Tickdoff Tank, 08 April 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vassago Rain, on 08 April 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Why are we in a position where the devs believe the magic voodoo of crit.seeking is real?

They are dumb.

[Royalewithcheese]

Here's a question: if they want MGs to do more damage to internals, why not make them do more damage to internals? Why even mess around with a system build on the unreliable crit mechanic?

[stjobe]

Let's see some stats - or am I and Tank the only ones that even tried the MG?

[aniviron]

Not a large sample size, but there it is. Note that these are only from matches since stats have been up; I haven't bothered using them in months. These are all from my RVN-4X, while I was evaluating the stock config. I actually found the stock loadout (2xMLAS, 1xSRM6, 2xMG) to be more effective simply by removing the MGs. Even though it left me down tonnage, I was no longer vulnerable to internal ammo explosions from the MG ammo. I actually got killed twice by having my MG ammo blown out, and got no kills with the MGs.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Weapon_______matches____Fired____Hit____Percent____time used____Damage
MACHINE GUN_____2_______250____121____48.40%____00:10:10______5.0

Took me 10 minutes to figure out that was a dud.

[General Taskeen]

You are using 6MG Spider's PGI? Um, ok.

Who exactly at PGI is responsible for the heavy elbow rubbing at your headquarters?

Come on now Devs. Bumping the MG damage to an extreme, would make it OP, because that is how you featured the MG to fire constantly. There is your problem. Imagine the devastating effect of 6 SL's on the back of an Mech in the game, because its already possible for the SL.

Who at PGI decided to copy the MW:LL MG anyways without taking into consideration they made weapons behave different vs. different targets? Do you guys remember the MG of MW3 at all? You know the one with a Cool Down that behaved like a super fast autocannon that damaged armor (because it could in TT after all)? What more investigation is needed when other games with Mech vs. Mech combat got it right.



Test Mech Used: Stock CPLT-K3

7 Matches
38 Damage with MG's
2764 Damage with ER PPC/Medium Laser

They weren't worth anything up close. I can do more damage than 38 in 7 Matches with 1 Small Laser.

Edited by General Taskeen, 08 April 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Damage is a joke.

I can say I had a 6 MG Jagermech (w 4 large lasers) core me in seconds flat. The lasers stripped my torso armor on my Jager, and before they cycled again his mgs critted my XL and ammo.

So, in the perfect storm where you have spare tonnage and hardpoints to wait till you can get point blank on a naked mech, it seeks they are WAI.

If you actually want them to be anything other than a gimmick that maybe 1 match in 20 do anything useful, well, just SOL.

Personally, I would rather they drop all this cutesy peripheral BS and just function on damage. Screw EMP PPCs, Crit Seeking MGs and LBx, and such. I'd rather they were just USEFUL.

[Traigus]

My 3C Cicc (usually wirthan ER large or ER PPC
Weapon_______matches____Fired____Hit____Percent____time used____Damage
MACHINE GUN ____68_____ 35,345 _21,735___61.49% ____04:39:36_____793

Edit: Oops 11.6 thanks.

Edited by Traigus, 08 April 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[Phaesphoros]

MACHINE GUN 96 161,219 85,674 53.14% 08:56:14 3,447
I've mastered my 5K with 4 MGs. Crits?? You can't strip armor with the 5K. You have be the sidekick of an Atlas to crit an STKs side torso... 5 s before the Atlas blows it away.

[stjobe]

Traigus, on 08 April 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

My 3C Cicc (usually wirthan ER large or ER PPC
Weapon_______matches____Fired____Hit____Percent____time used____Damage
MACHINE GUN ____68_____ 35,345 _21,735___61.49% ____04:39:36_____793

Don't forget to calculate your damage per match; yours is 11.66.

[Vassago Rain]

stjobe, on 08 April 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

You tell me, Vass... You tell me. You've been here longer than I have, so perhaps you understand the mysterious ways of PGI better than I do. To me it's incomprehensible that anyone that actually had played the game with MGs even once would think that they were useful weapons.

Oh, and what's your MG stats?

They started drinking their own kool-aid.

[Vassago Rain]

stjobe, on 08 April 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Let's see some stats - or am I and Tank the only ones that even tried the MG?

I've not equipped it or any of the other useless weapons since forever.

[At Least Three Bears]

Don't you dare spit on mgs, how can you say no to that lovely sound. They might suck balls alone, but saved my nipples a few times while all my weapon were on cool down.

Edited by bronsteijn, 08 April 2013 - 04:12 PM.