14 replies to this topic

[Artifact]

Basically, make autocannons actual autocannons, which sound amazingly cool (dakka dakka dakka, ya know?) In practice, it would help with damage modeling, as they would work like lasers if it were a burst. Reference: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Autocannon

[Volthorne]

Sure, let's take weapons that are already being dumped on as typically "worse than lasers" and give them laser-like mechanics that would only succeed in making them aboslutely worthless.

NO.

Also, you need a poll, otherwise the mods get mad at you.

Edited by Volthorne, 09 April 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[blinkin]

Volthorne, on 09 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Sure, let's take weapons that are already being dumped on as typically "worse than lasers" and give them laser-like mechanics that would only succeed in making them aboslutely worthless.

NO.

Also, you need a poll, otherwise the mods get mad at you.

what on earth are you smoking?

AC weapons deal ALL of their damage in one hit to exactly one component making them amazing for breaking armor or components (not so much on light mechs though) AND they have far higher DPS than almost any energy weapon accross the board and EVERY LASER: http://mwowiki.org/w...ategory:Weapons
then we also have the fact that the heat profile is far better unless you compare an AC20 to medium lasers.

you regularly see threads devoted to nerfing some sort of ballistic weapon. i have yet to see a thread that suggests we should nerf lasers in any way.

there are plenty of ballistic weapons that need some love but there are also plenty of them that outclass lasers horribly.

[Triple Patte]

And take out more diversity? Make autocannons essentially lasers with less heat but ammo cap? No thanks.

[Donas]

blinkin, on 09 April 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

what on earth are you smoking?

WHatever it is, he needs to share. lol

Right on the money with the poll though. Ndz poll.

:: on a constructive note, you can all ready do this with the AC2's, and to a slightly lesser degree the AC5's.

If you have 4 AC2's, and you set them up in 3 or 4 weapon groups, and bring them in staggered (like if you were drumming your fingers on the table, you get the same DPS and it does exactly what your looking for, dakkadakkadakka.

[blinkin]

Ridiculous, on 09 April 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

And take out more diversity? Make autocannons essentially lasers with less heat but ammo cap? No thanks.

this is the first solid argument i have seen for keeping AC weapons as they are, and i find myself enclined to agree strongly on this point. although it does break immersion for me a bit when the auto cannons completely lack the "auto" part and are all cannon.

tldr: i want the cannons to be more canon. give me canon cannons.

Edited by blinkin, 09 April 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[Sybreed]

I suggested the same thing in the balance thread:

- Increase ROF a lot
- Reduce damage per shot

This turns autocannons into real autocannons OF DOOM.

But, I didn't suggest this only for the immersion factor, I suggested this because right now convergence and high alphas are reducing the fun factor for a lot of players. If PGI wants to keep their hardpoint system as it is (which means, no hardpoint sizes and ravens can fit gauss rifles in their ballistic slots), but encourage longer fights WITHOUT reducing skill required, then doing this would help their cause.

You need skill to stay on target, but if the entire damage isn't focused on 1 part of a mech, the other mech has a chance to survive/react which isn't the case when a dual AC/20 sneaks up on you.

I'd try to keep the same dps, so it's only a matter of dividing the damage and multiplying the ROF by the same numbers.... higher calibers ACs will still be king of brawlers, especially if you keep your target constantly under fire.

AC/10 and LB-X still need a buff though...

Edited by Sybreed, 09 April 2013 - 01:44 PM.

[Volthorne]

blinkin, on 09 April 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

what on earth are you smoking?

AC weapons deal ALL of their damage in one hit to exactly one component making them amazing for breaking armor or components (not so much on light mechs though) AND they have far higher DPS than almost any energy weapon accross the board and EVERY LASER: http://mwowiki.org/w...ategory:Weapons
then we also have the fact that the heat profile is far better unless you compare an AC20 to medium lasers.

you regularly see threads devoted to nerfing some sort of ballistic weapon. i have yet to see a thread that suggests we should nerf lasers in any way.

there are plenty of ballistic weapons that need some love but there are also plenty of them that outclass lasers horribly.

And on a daily basis how many LB-10Xs do you see? Standard AC10s? Standard AC5s? AC20s that aren't on Jaegerbombs or Boomcats? The majority of the ballistics are sub-par, and the usage in-game reflects that, regardless of what paper-mathematics say.

Sybreed, on 09 April 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

You need skill to stay on target, but if the entire damage isn't focused on 1 part of a mech, the other mech has a chance to surivive/react which isn't the case when a dual AC/20 sneaks up on you.

Yes, let's make weapons that are supposed to deal all their damage to ONE component SPREAD IT OUT. Good idea, and not at all pointless! If you let something with AC20s get a clean shot on your back, you kinda deserve it.

[Adridos]

Yep, let's make them that useless piece of junk trying to be a laser just like in MW4.... oh wait.

[blinkin]

Volthorne, on 09 April 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

And on a daily basis how many LB-10Xs do you see? Standard AC10s? Standard AC5s? AC20s that aren't on Jaegerbombs or Boomcats? The majority of the ballistics are sub-par, and the usage in-game reflects that, regardless of what paper-mathematics say.


Yes, let's make weapons that are supposed to deal all their damage to ONE component SPREAD IT OUT. Good idea, and not at all pointless! If you let something with AC20s get a clean shot on your back, you kinda deserve it.

i see atlai with single AC20 all the time. i would have one myself if i had a working trackball that had more than 2 buttons. the ACs had to be nerfed several times when the cataphract came out.

i won't argue that all of the AC weapons are perfect. the LBX is mostly worthless and the AC5 needs to be properly balanced with the UAC5, but the AC weapons are definitely not the piles of junk you describe.

[General Taskeen]

Volthorne, on 09 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

NO.

Yes.

Because MW:LL made them better.

[Volthorne]

Adridos, on 09 April 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Yep, let's make them that useless piece of junk trying to be a laser just like in MW4.... oh wait.

Not sure which side of the fence you're coming down on, so I'll play it safe. In MW4 any "burst-fire" ACs only had a single projectile with a multi-shell skin/animation. If you hit with the lead shot you hit with all of them.

blinkin, on 09 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

i see atlai with single AC20 all the time. i would have one myself if i had a working trackball that had more than 2 buttons. the ACs had to be nerfed several times when the cataphract came out.

i won't argue that all of the AC weapons are perfect. the LBX is mostly worthless and the AC5 needs to be properly balanced with the UAC5, but the AC weapons are definitely not the piles of junk you describe.

Trackball comment aside (no idea why you'd want one?) how many of those Atlai are trials or stock? The only AC nerfs that I recall happening when the Phract was released were to Gauss and UAC5s. Maybe the AC2 once or twice. Everything else was largely untouched.

I won't argue that they're entirely terrible, but making them from (mostly) single-point damage-dealers into spray-and-pray weapons isn't something we should be doing.

General Taskeen, on 09 April 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Yes.

Because MW:LL made them better.

I never played MW:LL but I'm going to guess there were a whole host of balancing issues doing ACs like that.

[Daelin Wledig]

As they are, they're less 'auto cannon' and more 'auto-loadng cannon'. Well, aside from the 2 and Ultra 5 (which jams way too easily). Then there's the whole issue with the DPS of the 2 being way too high for a translation from tabletop, but getting into that would be threadjacking.

As for being more auto cannony, I'd like to see them be burst fire weapons shooting a very rapid, "BRAAAP", followed by the cooldown. You know, like how an A-10 uses the GAU-8 to make the 'freedom burp'. If done right, I think they could still be very effective point weapons, but still have the possibility of spreading damage if fired on the swing (small spread at most).

[Zyllos]

This are reasons why the LBX/10 is bad:

Every piece of equipment has 10 HP.
Each pellet only has a crit chance of 25%, for 2.0 damage.
The number of pellets that hits a location at 50% optimal is maybe 2.
Critical hiding makes some items impossible to get a critical for.

If you had an LRM/5 and LRM Ammo in a single location, both having 10HP, there is a 50% * 25% chance for each pellet to get a critical hit on the ammo bin, or 12.5%. You have to get that pellet to critical 5 times on that ammo bin before an ammo explosion happens, or 12.5% ^ 5 = 0.003% chance. THEN, you only get a 10% chance after 10HP on the ammo bin destruction do you get an ammo explosion.

Then, after the AtD 35, we find out that if you just destroyed the section, you automatically get the 10% chance to cause an ammo explosion when a section is removed and an undestroyed ammo bin exists.

Tell me, how is that balanced for critical seeking weapons?

[HarmAssassin]

The only difference in definition between MG and Autocannon is caliber and rate of fire. An AC10 should be firing multiple projectiles that add up to 10 pts of damage, AC20's should be firing multiple projectiles that add up to 20 dmg, etc.