10 replies to this topic

[ElLocoMarko]

STD engine, gauss in side torso... cataphract
Case doesn't protect the side torso, no XL. Worst case is my side torso is down to one point before they hit the gauss. Then it transfers what? 19 points to center.. less...

Case is not useful for gauss?

[Royalewithcheese]

9.5 I think, because transfer halves damage. Yeah, I agree with you that it's probably not worth it, especially given how fast gauss pops.

[Hex Pallett]

WHY WOULD U USE GAUSS WHEN THERE'S AC20

Edit: To elaborate, AC20 weights less, packs more damage per ton of ammo and has superior DPS than Gauss within 400 (it's in the math). Also it doesn't explode and has something like 16 or 18 health itself. If you don't have that in your side-torso, U DOIN IT WRONG.

Edited by Helmstif, 09 April 2013 - 10:18 PM.

[Konril]

The gauss rifle itself will explode if destroyed, and is destroyed very easily once the armor is penetrated. But here are the facts:

Gauss explosions are still seen as "Ammo" explosions by the game engine. Like any other ammo explosion, CASE won't protect the gauss or actual non-gauss ammo from exploding, but will prevent the explosion from travelling to the center torso.

True ammo explosions tend to do 125 points directly to the internal structure minimum (depending on type, and if not used first) with the current rules. However the Gauss explosion only does 40. So on some mechs it does become statistically unlikely to actually reach the center torso.

Just be careful. Engines can now be destroyed by critical hits and have only 15 HP. Unless there is an exception made for Ammo explosions that I don't know about, it's possible for your engine to be hit by the full 40 if even 1 point gets to the center torso. So the explosion can still kill you if you don't have the CASE in place.

[Ravennus]

Konril, on 09 April 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

The gauss rifle itself will explode if destroyed, and is destroyed very easily once the armor is penetrated. But here are the facts:

Gauss explosions are still seen as "Ammo" explosions by the game engine. Like any other ammo explosion, CASE won't protect the gauss or actual non-gauss ammo from exploding, but will prevent the explosion from travelling to the center torso.

True ammo explosions tend to do 125 points directly to the internal structure minimum (depending on type, and if not used first) with the current rules. However the Gauss explosion only does 40. So on some mechs it does become statistically unlikely to actually reach the center torso.

Just be careful. Engines can now be destroyed by critical hits and have only 15 HP. Unless there is an exception made for Ammo explosions that I don't know about, it's possible for your engine to be hit by the full 40 if even 1 point gets to the center torso. So the explosion can still kill you if you don't have the CASE in place.

I'm not sure where you got most of that info.....

You are right about what CASE does, in that it doesn't prevent ammo explosions but instead stops it from travelling to the CT.

But the other stuff?

As far as I'm aware (and I have not seen patch notes which say otherwise), ammo explosion damage depends entirely on what kind of ammo explodes. I'm not sure where you got the 125 damage figure from.

Also, Gauss Rifle explosions deal 20 points of damage, not 40.

Finally, you cannot be killed by engine crits. They CAN be crit (and act as crit "sponges") but the crits don't actually do anything at the moment, according to Garth.

[Konril]

25 shots in a ton * 5 points per shot = 125 points in an ammo explosion if it's Ultra/5 Ammo AFAIK. It gets worse from there. 7 in a ton * 20 for an AC/20 Ammo comes to 140 in an explosion. 15 in a ton * 10 per shot is 150 for an AC 10 or LB10X. Even though the damage to the enemy was technically reduced, a ton of LRMs still look like they can explode for 324 damage, and a ton of SRMs look like they can explode for 250.

Gauss rifle explosions are listed as doing 20 points of damage, in page 119 of my copy of the Battletech Compendium published 1990. PGI has doubled the structure and armor of all mechs from the original source, and increased ammo capacity to compensate. I can read in the patch notes on 4/12 that the health was set to 3 and the chance of explosion set to 90%. But I honestly can't find the official announcement of the Gauss rifle explosion anymore. I know it certainly doesn't feel like it's just 20 when it explodes and tears off the torso of my Atlas DC. Sorry about the assumption.

I would really love it if you can point me to where Garth has actually said that. I can't find it. Actually, I do recall something similar to what you are talking about. The original tabletop rules have damaged engines producing a lot of excess heat and that doesn't appear at all in the current MWO. An engine at 25% or even 7% is still as good as one at 100%. So damage to the engine was stated at the time of not doing anything but increase the repair bill. But I seem to recall the old R&R system leaving my mechs extremely fragile when I couldn't afford the costs of engine repairs. So that's the only explanation I could think of for the strange sudden deaths I was experiencing at the time was that my engine was being critted out. But with R&R gone, that isn't exactly easy to test anymore. So you may have heard something I didn't.

[John MatriX82]

It depends on your internals, normally the GR wil pop in no time as soon as your armor is gone. Therefore in a CTF you have 30 internal HPs in your side torso, you'd barely get a noticeable damage transfer to the CT.

Remember to crit buffer the gauss rather than use the CASE (add a DHS and two tons of ammo, place ammunition also in the head or CT, so that you use these first and you have still 2 tons in your side torso that may crit instead of the GR CTF-1X).

And.. if you're going STD use an AC 20 instead of the GR

[Ravennus]

Konril, on 09 April 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

25 shots in a ton * 5 points per shot = 125 points in an ammo explosion if it's Ultra/5 Ammo AFAIK. It gets worse from there. 7 in a ton * 20 for an AC/20 Ammo comes to 140 in an explosion. 15 in a ton * 10 per shot is 150 for an AC 10 or LB10X. Even though the damage to the enemy was technically reduced, a ton of LRMs still look like they can explode for 324 damage, and a ton of SRMs look like they can explode for 250.

Gauss rifle explosions are listed as doing 20 points of damage, in page 119 of my copy of the Battletech Compendium published 1990. PGI has doubled the structure and armor of all mechs from the original source, and increased ammo capacity to compensate. I can read in the patch notes on 4/12 that the health was set to 3 and the chance of explosion set to 90%. But I honestly can't find the official announcement of the Gauss rifle explosion anymore. I know it certainly doesn't feel like it's just 20 when it explodes and tears off the torso of my Atlas DC. Sorry about the assumption.

I would really love it if you can point me to where Garth has actually said that. I can't find it. Actually, I do recall something similar to what you are talking about. The original tabletop rules have damaged engines producing a lot of excess heat and that doesn't appear at all in the current MWO. An engine at 25% or even 7% is still as good as one at 100%. So damage to the engine was stated at the time of not doing anything but increase the repair bill. But I seem to recall the old R&R system leaving my mechs extremely fragile when I couldn't afford the costs of engine repairs. So that's the only explanation I could think of for the strange sudden deaths I was experiencing at the time was that my engine was being critted out. But with R&R gone, that isn't exactly easy to test anymore. So you may have heard something I didn't.

Sorry, you made it sound like most/all ammo explosions did 125 damage. That's why I replied the way I did.

Here is a post where Bryan Ekman confirms the 20 damage Gauss Explosion AND also confirms that engines can be critical hit, but don't actually destroy your mech.

He mentions there that it increases your repair bill if the engine is destroyed via crits, but obviously that doesn't matter anymore. I've also seen Garth mention the engine crit thing a couple times, and in the latest Ask The Devs someone asks if criting components like Engines and Gyros will eventually have an effect ingame... and it sounds like they plan on it.

Quote

Herbstwind: Are we going to see critical hits to the engine/gyro (or even actuators) in the future?
And if so, could you elaborate on the effects ? (reduced heat capacity, reduced speed, falling down more easily or on hard impacts...)
]A: Yes. No details to report yet.

Just an FYI.... I recommend going to http://mwowiki.org and also looking for dev posts for exact game info, and not looking in the old Battletech rulebooks.
While PGI has kept some things the same as TT, they have thrown other things to the wind (for better or worse).

Hope that helps.

Edited by Ravennus, 09 April 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[Ravennus]

Helmstif, on 09 April 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

WHY WOULD U USE GAUSS WHEN THERE'S AC20

Edit: To elaborate, AC20 weights less, packs more damage per ton of ammo and has superior DPS than Gauss within 400 (it's in the math). Also it doesn't explode and has something like 16 or 18 health itself. If you don't have that in your side-torso, U DOIN IT WRONG.

While this is true in a lot of cases (no pun intended), there are others where a Gauss is actually preferable.

A perfect example is my Dragon FLAME.

Sure, I can put in an AC20 and 4 MLAS, but then I have to sacrifice one of the main advantages of the chassis... speed.
You have to use a standard engine, and only end up going around 80kph.

I can do that in my Hunchback 4H, and move faster.

I much prefer the Gauss in this case. The Dragon side torsos are well protected and you can still fit in an XL engine.
4 MLAS and a Gauss running at 101kph (or faster) is pretty sweet.

Edited by Ravennus, 09 April 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[Urdnot Mau]

Gauss over AC/20 ? In Cataphracts? Sure ! Unless you are running PPC's or ER Large's
Benefits? you have more range. If you fire at someone between 1m and 600m you still do full damage, where the AC/20 won't. 20's bullet is also heavy as hell, so along the travel path they start falling. This is bad for 270m+ distances.
Less heat. Important because most CTF relly in multiple Energy weapons, wich generates a lot of heat.
CASE will stop those death by gauss explosion.
just pay the 1.5 ton price and do some damage before getting closer!

Edited by Urdnot Mau, 10 April 2013 - 04:49 AM.

[ElLocoMarko]

Helmstif, on 09 April 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

WHY WOULD U USE GAUSS WHEN THERE'S AC20

Edit: To elaborate, AC20 weights less, packs more damage per ton of ammo and has superior DPS than Gauss within 400 (it's in the math). Also it doesn't explode and has something like 16 or 18 health itself. If you don't have that in your side-torso, U DOIN IT WRONG.

The short version: Gauss is cool. AC20 is hot. I needed a cool weapon.
And the tonnage difference is made up for when you add in ammo. I want around 30 shots for a match.

This was an Ilya Muromets with STD300, gauss (30 shots), 2 LLas.
If I want to run AC20 it will be the CTF-1X with STD300, AC20 (28 shots), 5 ML and lots of heat sinks
That's the real difference. If you have more energy hard points you can get the damage from 5 tons instead of 15 leaving way more room for cooling.

For a while the muromets ran with an XL300, (arm) Gauss and 3 LLas. It was quite fragile.

But now that hero weekend is over I'll probably take up the 1X and all its non-hero friends.

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 10 April 2013 - 02:15 PM.