24 replies to this topic

[SmokinDave73]

Quote

oldhasu: When ammo is destroyed by a critical hit, sometimes it explodes. Sometimes not. How does this calculated? What is the percentage of the probability?
A: There are two different times that ammo can explode. If an ammo bin is destroyed by a critical hit (each bin currently has 10 health), there is a 10% chance that the ammo remaining in that bin will explode. When a location, such as the right torso, is destroyed, each ammo bin in that location that had not already been destroyed by crit hits has an individual 10% chance to explode. There are two exceptions to this. The first is that, if you have ammo stored in your arm, and your arm falls off when your side torso is destroyed, there is no chance of the ammo exploding. The other is that Gauss Rifle ammo never explodes. However, all the explosion rules also apply to Gauss Rifles, except that they have a 90% chance of exploding.

Why the Gauss Rifle’s explosion rate is at 90% astounds me, this revelation is just appalling, I always knew that the gauss rifle explosion rate was high but not that stupidly high. The only reason people have not complained about this is because there is still a glitch that PGI refuses to fix that notifies you your ammo explodes not your gauss rifle. I now think PGI have left this bug unfixed so some people still think it’s their ammo exploding... Seeing that the Gauss rifle has only 3HP the lowest in the game is that not enough of a nerf to make the weapon balanced?? Why does it have to explode and pretty much always kill you in the process at a chance of 90%?

I personally just don’t understand the logic behind this at all, and the whole purpose of this post is to just bring more awareness and also bring the issue up that this 90% rate should be lowered. If it doesn’t it will be A/C 20 warrior online once ballistic state rewind hits which I don’t actually mind I just want a little justice bought back to the gauss rifle itself.

[Harmin]

SmokinDave73, on 10 April 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

I personally just don’t understand the logic behind this at all, and the whole purpose of this post is to just bring more awareness and also bring the issue up that this 90% rate should be lowered. If it doesn’t it will be A/C 20 warrior online once ballistic state rewind hits which I don’t actually mind I just want a little justice bought back to the gauss rifle itself.

It's rooted in battletech history. The Gauss rifle is an extremely powerful, but also extremely fragile weapon. It is meant to be this way. Every weapon system is supposed to have at least one counter/achilles heel. Extreme fragility is the Gauss rifle's.

Have a look for yourself:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle

Sarna said:

[..]
However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) Some 'Mechs employ CASE in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes.
[..]

Hope that helps,

-Armin

[SmokinDave73]

thanks for the information if you can indeed case the weapon that actually gives me more peace of mind.

[Elyam]

The decision by PGI to set it to 90 was also affected by complaints at the time toward, in particular, Catapult K2 'gausscats' weilding 2 gauss rifles. It was a crescendo similar to the one against Raven 3Ls that appeared to peak a few weeks ago. And honestly, at the time, the K2s really were dominating - perceptually, anyway. The crit system was getting an update, and making the gauss a bit more vulnerable seemed a logical experiment.

I agree with the 90% chance since it matches original BT intent for the weapon. But, if memory serves, the force multiplier for gauss disablement is the measly 3 points of damage that each associated slot can take instead of the normal 10 points. It comes down to a double-negative on the gauss that I think time has proven is a bit of an overkill. I think the experiment should continue with normalizing the slot 'hit points' at 10 but leaving the 90% chance of capacitor detonation in place.

Edited by Elyam, 10 April 2013 - 08:59 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Harmin, on 10 April 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

It's rooted in battletech history. The Gauss rifle is an extremely powerful, but also extremely fragile weapon. It is meant to be this way. Every weapon system is supposed to have at least one counter/achilles heel. Extreme fragility is the Gauss rifle's.

Have a look for yourself:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle



Hope that helps,

-Armin

No, its rooted in how PGI balanced critical hits by virtual rolling dice, because people complained about Gauss, so they lowered its HP. They however did not balance in any way for CASE to prevent an XL from exploding too when the Gauss explodes. It is the equivalent of equipping two Achilles heels.

[Frisk]

You can CASE the Guass. IMO the Guass is perfect where it is at. Before they made changes to HP and it exploding I would just brawl like crazy with Guass. Since the change If I plan on brawling I look more @ the AC options for those type of builds, simply because a few direct hits and its gone.

The change also cut the number of gauss-pults in-game which is a good thing.

Edited by Frisk, 10 April 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Zyllos]

All the HP on the items are all off.

The current system for ammo explosions also kills critical seeking weapons. Why is it only a 10% chance for ammo explosions when you destroy the ammo bin, if you can actually hit it? Also, why does the larger, non-critical seeking weapons, get the same benefit for destroying a section?

Leave destroying a section at 10% but up the actual destruction of a single ammo bin at 75% chance. This would favor critical seeking weapons without buffing non-critical seeking weapons when using them.

Also, the LBX still needs its spread greatly reduced.

[Mechteric]

1. No heat
2. Ammo doesn't explode
3. High damage
4. Long range


This gun on all counts other than tonnage requirements is a weapon that has all positives and basically no negatives otherwise (especially when directly compared to Autocannons). This is why it was necessary as a means of balancing an otherwise godly weapon.

[KhanCipher]

honestly i don't know what caused all the gauss rifle hate to begin with, actually now whenever i see a gaussrifle on a enemy mech, i just laugh and proceed to aim for the location(s) that has the gaussrifle. honestly i think the Gauss hp should get a buff because you have a more than a 50% to crit the dang thing.

[John MatriX82]

KhanCipher, on 10 April 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

honestly i don't know what caused all the gauss rifle hate to begin with, actually now whenever i see a gaussrifle on a enemy mech, i just laugh and proceed to aim for the location(s) that has the gaussrifle. honestly i think the Gauss hp should get a buff because you have a more than a 50% to crit the dang thing.

I agree. I'm totally fine if the weapon explodes and the consequent damage dealt to the bearer (it must have a drawback) but 3HP on a 7 crit item it's a tad too low..

[Kmieciu]

Well in TT there was no "item HP" - the Gauss rifle could explode after a single hit from the weakest weapon to the internals. Also in MWO we heave double internal HP, so the Gauss deals in fact half the damage it did in TT.

In conclusion, Gauss is much more durable than it should be.

Edited by Kmieciu, 10 April 2013 - 01:14 PM.

[Comassion]

Kmieciu, on 10 April 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Well in TT there was no "item HP" - the Gauss rifle could explode after a single hit from the weakest weapon to the internals. Also in MWO we heave double internal HP, so the Gauss deals in fact half the damage it did in TT.

In conclusion, Gauss is much more durable than it should be.

Indeed. An MWO Gauss rifle has 3 HP and a 90% chance to explode if destroyed.

In TT, the Gauss rifle has 1 HP and a 100% chance to explode if destroyed.

[sC4r]

i would rather have it at pure 100% or 0

i mean it take some luck for it not to explode... and i dont like that kind of luck in game... can as well go and throw dices

same goes for ammo

[Valdez Raptor]

I agree. 90% exploding rate is ridiculous, 3hp for the weapon is also ridiculous, and lastly this was a nerf to the rifle due to K-2 Gauss cat. Balancing a weapon around a build so it's not viable isn't balancing the weapon! There were so many options, increase heat a bit, make it reload slower, add a small min range to it. So many other options than making it into a literal bomb for everyone.

[Hedonism Robot]

I would rather see its health made 5 and the explosion guaranteed for 15 dmg. This value would make a little more sense as 15 dmg is the amount of force it generates when it flings the round representing the theoretical magnetic strength.

[Hauser]

Valdez Raptor, on 10 April 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

I agree. 90% exploding rate is ridiculous, 3hp for the weapon is also ridiculous, and lastly this was a nerf to the rifle due to K-2 Gauss cat. Balancing a weapon around a build so it's not viable isn't balancing the weapon! There were so many options, increase heat a bit, make it reload slower, add a small min range to it. So many other options than making it into a literal bomb for everyone.

The ammo doesn't explode. When the gun explodes it does less damage then an ammo explosion too. And you don't need heatsinks. And it has a long range, high damage. And a fast projectile speed.

Can it have some downsides?

Edited by Hauser, 10 April 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

SmokinDave73, on 10 April 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Why the Gauss Rifle’s explosion rate is at 90% astounds me, this revelation is just appalling, I always knew that the gauss rifle explosion rate was high but not that stupidly high. The only reason people have not complained about this is because there is still a glitch that PGI refuses to fix that notifies you your ammo explodes not your gauss rifle. I now think PGI have left this bug unfixed so some people still think it’s their ammo exploding... Seeing that the Gauss rifle has only 3HP the lowest in the game is that not enough of a nerf to make the weapon balanced?? Why does it have to explode and pretty much always kill you in the process at a chance of 90%?

I personally just don’t understand the logic behind this at all, and the whole purpose of this post is to just bring more awareness and also bring the issue up that this 90% rate should be lowered. If it doesn’t it will be A/C 20 warrior online once ballistic state rewind hits which I don’t actually mind I just want a little justice bought back to the gauss rifle itself.

Hauser, on 10 April 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

The ammo doesn't explode. When the gun explodes it does less damage then an ammo explosion too. And you don't need heatsinks. And it has a long range, high damage. And a fast projectile speed.

Can it have some downsides?

and you can put a CASE around it to contain the explosion. makes a significant difference.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 10 April 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[MasterErrant]

I agree with the exp chance and damage but also thing the HP are too low. HP should be a factor of wepon size something like 5+ crits for tough weapons 2=crits for fargile/extra bulky weapons (gauss PPcs and lrms come to mind. as well as ultra ACs and rotarys


I think they did this because GRs are supposed to be very delicate and any hit disables them unlike ACs which migh still work after a hit.

Edited by MasterErrant, 13 April 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Zordicron]

it is annoying when it blows up on you, BUT it does pinpoint dmg, is not that hard to aim, has basically no minimum range a hella long range, ammo doesnt blow up and it cost no heat. Dual gauss is still dang powerful when aimed with even minute skill. All it needs for "support weapons" is some really light lasers, because you will have the heat to use them, and when you get hot you can still fire double gauss.

Gauss are fine. if the range was cut in half or something I would agree on the HP thing. As it is blowing up is about the only downside vs a list of upsides much greater.

[KhanCipher]

Hauser, on 10 April 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Can it have some downsides?

yeah, it's already the 2nd biggest item in the game (not counting xl engines), has the lowest health of all the items, oh and the bullet speed is now slower than a AC/5, and the fact that it was nerfed because of the CPLT-K2... and we nerfed weapons because of certain setups in the past (the ML/SL boating JR7-F/HBK-4Ps, the streakpult when ecm was introduced... which caused other problems, i'm actually surprised that they didn't nerf the AC/20 yet based on the AC/20 boats now...)

honestly i want it buffed, i don't fear gaussrifles anymore, but now i fear anything with 3+ PPC/ERPPCs... i want to fear the gauss rifle again, but i just laugh whenever i see it used.

Edited by KhanCipher, 10 April 2013 - 10:10 PM.