115 replies to this topic

[Inappropriate1191]

The atlas... is not a mech for everybody. Many people make the mistake of thinking, that just because the atlas is meant to be played like a sledgehammer, that it's not a thinking-man's robot. It's slow speed and huge profile make it require a very strategic mindset, and rather conservative tactics. For instance, you have to really pay attention to what your team is doing, even using lighter mechs to screen for you. You have to be very careful with the push, because being the slow, hard to handle beast that it is, once you begin the push, you're committed, no turning back. For good or ill.

I will agree, that the atlas' hardpoints are not well thought-out. It's usually utterly worthless to have more than 2 ballistic points on most mechs especially in the same spot. Most mechs under 85 tons have no reason to have even 2 ballistic points, for the most part. The atlas D and DDC have 2 ballistics in one area, but are clearly meant to wield the biggest, baddest cannon you can fit on the thing (I will say, however, dual Ultra-5's are a very good thing for an atlas. It's just that you're usually better off with AC/20 or Gauss). So, it's not always easy to get a balanced, winning combination of arms with an atlas.

However, when you can get those factors right, the atlas wrecks things like as though God himself came down and smited your enemies like the heathen scum they are.

Recap: Play conservatively. Keep in mind that you're a big, slow target. Put the biggest honkin' guns you can on it. Use teamwork. Screen with lighter mechs. Save yourself to be that sledgehammer blow in the end.

Oh, and last, but not least. Don't run an XL engine.

Edited by Inappropriate1191, 10 April 2013 - 06:27 PM.

[Stoicblitzer]

I feel the reverse about the Stalker. Seems like it has barely any torso twist. I haven't mastered it yet though.

[Johnny Reb]

I like them both, that said I still own all 3 of my Atlases (can't sell the D obviously). Stalker, only kept the 3F because its the only one with good torso twist. Also, std 350 in Atlas is the way to go!

[Mister Haha]

Stalker has significantly worse torso twist as well as twist speed. That's cause that thing blows holes through the planet of course.

The Atlas requires teamwork from your fellow mechs, which you're definitely not going to find all the time.

Plus it is a bullet magnet. If you had an Atlas with 2 small lasers and a TAG laser only, and you were surrounded by 3 friendly Stalkers, you'd still probably get focused down first by the enemy.

The DDC packs a gigantic punch and carries ECM. The default model isn't so bad either.

I used to only pilot Atlas for months.. but the meta has changed enough that there's really better choices at the moment.

[Noobzorz]

Arm mounts suck. Suck hard. They fire from weird angles that seem like they should be unobstructed by cover, but wind up with you pouring laserfire into the top of the hill or the side of the slope you're standing on. Shoulder mounts are about a zillion times more useful.

[StingerPryde]

I just think this is a case of the stalker having to many hard points. I know that is how it is lore wise, but still they should of toned it down abit.

[p00k]

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Having mastered the stalker, I expected the atlas to be bigger, slower, and have more firepower.

uhh...and it is?
bigger? check
slower? check
more firepower? well...depends, but it's pretty close depending on which atlas and how you build it

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Its turning radius is abysmal. Its turning speed is worse. It has restrictive hard points. I can't stand its ridiculous gorilla arms turn every mole hill into complete cover for your target.

ok so you're clearly delusional. turn radius? i assume you mean torso twist radius, to which the atlases have an 80deg twist. all but the 3F stalker have a 60deg twist (3F has 85). atlases arms also give you an extra 40deg, easily beating out the stalkers.
turn speed? stalker's max turn speed is 41.81deg/sec. atlas's is 41.27. i seriously doubt you're noticing that 0.6degrees/second. remember, engine size affects turn speed.
restrictive hard points? it has energy in the arms, arguably the best place to have hitscan weapons to track fast movers. ballistic and missile in the torso helps convergence. it has some of each hardpoint, in the best place to have the respective type of hardpoint. oh and the D and K have CT energy too, allowing you to zombie with the only hardpoint type that is ammo independent and thus useful to zombie with.
ok, the arms are low and wide. no argument there. small price to pay though for otherwise pretty damn good hardpoints. granted you don't have 6 energy and 4 missile spread all over

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

The way weapon balance has been tweaked means that you will always be able to carry more weapons than you can effectively use (think crits and double vs single hear sinks in the context of faster fire rates).

not true. for example, you can build an atlas D with 4mlas, 2uac5, 2srm6+art, and run cool enough and with enough ammo. every hardpoint used, every crit spot used.

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Moral of the story is that tweaks to the TT numbers have unintended consequences (I am not a zealot said please don't flame) and TT values are not perfectly balanced (no one ever customized a mech to carry 4 ac2's lol) but short of the ddc, the Atlas is worthless. The stalker is better in every way (hardpoints, mechanical response, heat efficiency).

your problem, ultimately, is that you're used to stalkers. furthermore you have them mastered, which means you have the acceleration, deceleration, turn rate, torso twist range, heat capacity, cooling rate, etc skills DOUBLED, making them feel more maneuverable and cooler, faster firing, and you're comparing them to a stock atlas which from the sound of it is nowhere near mastered. you're probably running a crap engine in your atlas and comparing it to a stalker with a near max engine

you're likely also trying to play it like a stalker, cresting over top of ridges and quickly learning your arm mounts are lower down, not twisting between weapon volleys, etc

learn to play to the atlas's strengths, and you'll find it far more survivable than stalkers

[DCLXVI]

Johnny Reb, on 10 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Stalker, only kept the 3F because its the only one with good torso twist.

is the torso twist different on each variant???? cant be

[DegeneratePervert]

RS with 4x Large Laser, 1x AC/20, and 2x SRM6. It'll change your whole perception of the Atlas. Runs hot but is super gratifying.

[One Medic Army]

DCLXVI, on 10 April 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

is the torso twist different on each variant???? cant be

The 3F has 85 degrees of twist, the rest only have 60.

[marabou]

Atlas is for teamwork, 8-mans drops.

[p00k]

DegeneratePervert, on 10 April 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

RS with 4x Large Laser, 1x AC/20, and 2x SRM6. It'll change your whole perception of the Atlas. Runs hot but is super gratifying.

hot doesn't begin to describe that build. 4large+gauss runs hot. 4large+ac20 runs super hot. 4large+ac20+2 srm6 and you'd be better off taking 4ppcs+gauss and pretending you're a ppcboat stalker with a gauss

[Ramrod]

jeffsw6, on 10 April 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

Easily-hit CT is certainly a big weakness.

Fun fact: the Stalker CT is just about as easy to hit! You know just under the huge phallus you can see a little bit of robo-crotch that holds its legs together? That little bit of robo-crotch is CT, whether you're in the front or in the back. This is true of every mech, but the Stalker has a particularly large robo-crotch hitbox.

Do the right thing - always shoot a Stalker in the goolies.

Edited by Ramrod, 10 April 2013 - 11:33 PM.

[Karenai]

Let us see.

Bigger twist radius then the Stalker.
Faster twisting then the Stalker.
Faster turning then the Stalker.
Beeing able to walk over pebbels, unlike the Stalker with its short legs.
Beeing able to have up to two ballistic weapons equipped, unlike the Stalker, which can equip zero.
Beeing able to shield your face and center torso with your hands, unlike the Stalker, which has no real arms.
Twisting beeing a good way to spread out the damage unlike the Stalker.
Bigger engine then the Stalker, aka more heatsinks.
Head very difficult to hit, unlike the Stalker.
Having arms which can aim to the side, unlike the Stalker, for shooting those pesky scouts.
Beeing able to equip ECM, unlike the Stalker.
More armour, then the Stalker.

What is the Stalker better at?
Beeing able to look 4° more up and down.
Beeing able to shoot with energy weapons over hills, unlike the Atlas, at least those in the arms.
Beeing able to boat more then 4 lasers, unlike the Atlas.
Beeing able to boat more then 3 missile weapons, unlike the Atlas.

Yeah, for cheese Stalker is the Mech to go right now.

Try twisting and shielding your mech during fights and you will start to love the Atlas. It made very little sense to do it with your Stalker, but it is a killer skill with the Atlas. The main point of Arms is to use them as shields, that is why there is so much armour on them.

[DegeneratePervert]

p00k, on 10 April 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

hot doesn't begin to describe that build. 4large+gauss runs hot. 4large+ac20 runs super hot. 4large+ac20+2 srm6 and you'd be better off taking 4ppcs+gauss and pretending you're a ppcboat stalker with a gauss

I'd take Gauss, but it explodes and wipes out half of your weapons. And the SRM6 are hardly ever used, anyway, since PGI somehow turned my SRM launchers into confetti cannons. The main strength of the build is that it can pretty much explode any section of mech you want in no time at all... Jagers and their tasty XL engines are my favorite dish.

[Malora Sidewinder]

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Having mastered the stalker, I expected the atlas to be bigger, slower, and have more firepower.

I was mistaken.

Its turning radius is abysmal. Its turning speed is worse. It has restrictive hard points. I can't stand its ridiculous gorilla arms turn every mole hill into complete cover for your target.

The way weapon balance has been tweaked means that you will always be able to carry more weapons than you can effectively use (think crits and double vs single hear sinks in the context of faster fire rates).

Moral of the story is that tweaks to the TT numbers have unintended consequences (I am not a zealot said please don't flame) and TT values are not perfectly balanced (no one ever customized a mech to carry 4 ac2's lol) but short of the ddc, the Atlas is worthless. The stalker is better in every way (hardpoints, mechanical response, heat efficiency).

What do you think?

Turning radius is BETTER than stalker. by a lot. turning SPEED is totally fine with a standard 325 engine.

atlas has much more survivability than the stalker, and is more heavily armored.

a stalker can jam more firepower in, but if they do, they're going to have to run extremely hot AND in a lot of cases an XL engine...cutting your chances of surviving in half.

plus, the atlas can fill multiple roles at ONCE, stalker can really only do long range/brawling build. (either dedicated LRM/laser builds which run super hot and are totally useless from up close, OR an srm package.) if you try to mix the two it sucks. an atlas can have enough close brawling firepower at the same time as being able to pack long-range weaponry as well. (Think founders atlas, 2 ER large, gauss, 2 srm 6. has good long range play, and all if it's weapons are fully usable in close as well.)

not saying that you're doing it wrong or the atlas is better than the stalker, but it's much more durable and versatile than the stalker is.

[p00k]

DegeneratePervert, on 10 April 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

I'd take Gauss, but it explodes and wipes out half of your weapons. And the SRM6 are hardly ever used, anyway, since PGI somehow turned my SRM launchers into confetti cannons. The main strength of the build is that it can pretty much explode any section of mech you want in no time at all... Jagers and their tasty XL engines are my favorite dish.

only reason i say gauss is it basically generates negligible heat, vs ac20 which generates lots of heat, to dramatize how one build with the coolest ballistic already runs hot, and an alternate build that substitutes it for one of the hottest ballistics is even hotter. and then sacrificing additional crits and tonnage for missiles instead of just heatsinks is nuclear hot

[KinLuu]

The Atlas is a great mech. So is the Stalker.

The difference between the two is that the Stalker is more specialized and the Atlas is more of an generalist.

And a 4x LLas, Gauss, 2x SRM6 RS does not run THAT hot.

[sC4r]

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Having mastered the stalker, I expected the atlas to be bigger, slower, and have more firepower.

I was mistaken.

Its turning radius is abysmal. Its turning speed is worse. It has restrictive hard points. I can't stand its ridiculous gorilla arms turn every mole hill into complete cover for your target.

The way weapon balance has been tweaked means that you will always be able to carry more weapons than you can effectively use (think crits and double vs single hear sinks in the context of faster fire rates).

Moral of the story is that tweaks to the TT numbers have unintended consequences (I am not a zealot said please don't flame) and TT values are not perfectly balanced (no one ever customized a mech to carry 4 ac2's lol) but short of the ddc, the Atlas is worthless. The stalker is better in every way (hardpoints, mechanical response, heat efficiency).

What do you think?

where is a dislike button?

[Shadowsword8]

DegeneratePervert, on 10 April 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

RS with 4x Large Laser, 1x AC/20, and 2x SRM6. It'll change your whole perception of the Atlas. Runs hot but is super gratifying.

It's kind of a waste to mix a large tonnage of pinpoint weapons with others that will spread most of their damage away from the part you're focusing in. Drop the 2 SRM6, and use the freed tonnage for more AC shells and heat sinks. Maybe change the AC20 for a Gauss + case, as well, better damage/heat ratio on your alpha.

Edited by Shadowsword8, 11 April 2013 - 02:07 AM.