71 replies to this topic

[Joehunk]

I have been away from the game for several months. Can I say how refreshing it is to come back and see a PPCs-are-overpowered thread for a change?

[Roland]

Willie Sauerland, on 11 April 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

MrPenguin is dead on,

but I would like to add

one more point to this.

A 6 PPC stalker

MUST

have a team

to cover his ***

because

ANYTHING

which gets within

90 meters of it

will eat its lunch.

In this sense,

boating isn't overpowered,

it is team-work.

What's the deal with the formatting on this post?
Is this supposed to be a poem or something?

[Roadbeer]

Roland, on 11 April 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

What's the deal with the formatting on this post?
Is this supposed to be a poem or something?

Sometimes when you spend the morning posting in K Town, it's hard to get out of the habbit.

I often find myself

posting like this

Then have to go back and edit.

[MrPenguin]

Roland, on 11 April 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

What's the deal with the formatting on this post?
Is this supposed to be a poem or something?

As far as I can tell, yeah.

[Willie Sauerland]

Roland, on 11 April 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

What's the deal with the formatting on this post?
Is this supposed to be a poem or something?

It is how I

have chosen

to format my posts.

I like it.

I don't care

if you don't.

Roadbeer, on 11 April 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Sometimes when you spend the morning posting in K Town, it's hard to get out of the habbit.

I often find myself

posting like this

Then have to go back and edit.

As you can see,

I don't only use it

in K-Town.

So it is not

K-Town

specific.

[TheSteelRhino]

I actually think if you increase the recharge time on the PPC...you are going to make it into an OP weapon. Right now, a lot of folks boat these things up...and have heat problems from carrying 4 or 6. If you remove the SKILL from it, then they simply wait until it recharges which allows more heat dissipation. (This is kind of reverse psychology, but if you think about it, it makes sense).

The large/ER large aren't bad weapons. They are more forgiving on heat. Easier to aim (what other weapons than the lasers give you a full second to get your damage on target and get at least partial damage).

Lighter weight and less bulky. Plus the mediums lasers have a fairly decent damage/heat/recharge time. If you change the large lasers, you are going to have to change the others somewhat.

Remember...for every 1 thing you change, other things are impacted....if they are to make sense...(and even if they don't make sense)....

[MrPenguin]

Willie Sauerland, on 11 April 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

It is how I

have chosen

to format my posts.

I like it.

I don't care

if you don't.

As you can see,

I don't only use it

in K-Town.

So it is not

K-Town

specific.

Should make this easier for you guys to read.

[Willie Sauerland]

MrPenguin, on 11 April 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Should make this easier for you guys to read.

But...

Spock...

[Malyshus]

Personally I find a significant amount of utility for Large Lasers vs. PPC (or ER PPC) when used against the smaller mechs for the function of corrective aim against small targets, which has been stated already in a manner.

NinetyProof, on 11 April 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

PPC is *much* MUCH harder to aim then Lasers. If your off a *little* with lasers, you have time to correct and still get most of your damage in, with PPC's a miss is a miss.

I do however wish that mechs which make a habit of 'Alpha -> Shutdown -> Alpha -> Shutdown' could destroy their heatsinks for getting too hot and/or/then start causing critical damage to their engines etc.

[Willie Sauerland]

Malyshus, on 11 April 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

I do however wish that mechs which make a habit of 'Alpha -> Shutdown -> Alpha -> Shutdown' could destroy their heatsinks for getting too hot and/or/then start causing critical damage to their engines etc.

I agree.

The PPC is not the problem,

but the fact

there is no penalty

to overheating.

Except getting killed

of course.

[Edwyndham]

I pilot PPC Stalkers almost exclusively, and in my humble opinion 6 PPC Stalker is literally the worst variety of PPC Stalker you can have.

[Urdnot Mau]

MrPenguin, on 11 April 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

ER PPC's and PPC's run hot, especially if you boat them. Theirs no arguing this.

The whole problem about boating PPC is that it is possible. Does not matter the actual heat consequences. They ARE worth it.
what happened to splatcats after the SRM nerf? Not so worthy using now.

the current situation of the PPC boats are: Because of the high heat they can't alpha all the time. That's why we don't see many PPC boaters doing 1000+ damage. Most of the times i see PPC boats making 500 - dmg.
What's the problem then? They don't need to fire as much as an Atlas (for example) to get the same damage.

ITS CHEESIER to use PPC boats, because all you need is ONE CLEAN SHOT to absolutly WRECK any medium and most heavy mechs.

that's why they are a problem. Same thing to Dual AC/20 (which generates less heat)

Edited by Urdnot Mau, 11 April 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Roadbeer]

You really have to look at the big picture.

PPC Boats are popular because their predator has been dialed back. A Big, slow moving, overheat prone mech standing out in the open is a yummy target for LRMs

I didn't hear anyone crying about PPC boats when LRMs were the meta.

[NinetyProof]

Malyshus, on 11 April 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Personally I find a significant amount of utility for Large Lasers vs. PPC (or ER PPC) when used against the smaller mechs for the function of corrective aim against small targets, which has been stated already in a manner.


I do however wish that mechs which make a habit of 'Alpha -> Shutdown -> Alpha -> Shutdown' could destroy their heatsinks for getting too hot and/or/then start causing critical damage to their engines etc.

I hit override one day in my DDC that has 2xErPPC, 1 Gauss, and 3Srm4 ... and then I Hit Alpha.

I fell over dead with a message something like:

Head Exploded

or something to that effect ... funniest ... thing ... evar.

[Artgathan]

Znail, on 11 April 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Nope, the cooldown is between the beginning of shots so the effective recharge is 3.25 seconds.

No, the recharge only begins one the beam has finished. If you fire a PPC and a Medium Laser (both have a recharge time of 3 seconds) you will notice that the PPC is ready to fire again a full second before the Medium Laser (which, incidentally is the 'burn time' of the laser).

[Willie Sauerland]

zwanglos, on 11 April 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

I pilot PPC Stalkers almost exclusively, and in my humble opinion 6 PPC Stalker is literally the worst variety of PPC Stalker you can have.

Some things

work better for some

than others.

My 6PPC stalker

is 4 PPC

and 2 ERPPC.

I run 4 different

weapon groups

just for 6 weapons.

But I'm sure

I'm just

over-complicating

things...

Urdnot Mau, on 11 April 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

The whole problem about boating PPC is that it is possible. Does not matter the actual heat consequences. They ARE worth it.
what happened to splatcats after the SRM nerf? Not so worthy using now.

the current situation of the PPC boats are: Because of the high heat they can't alpha all the time. That's why we don't see many PPC boaters doing 1000+ damage. Most of the times i see PPC boats making 500 - dmg.
What's the problem then? They don't need to fire as much as an Atlas (for example) to get the same damage.

ITS CHEESIER to use PPC boats, because all you need is ONE CLEAN SHOT to absolutly WRECK any medium and most heavy mechs.

that's why they are a problem. Same thing to Dual AC/20 (which generates less heat)

I used them,

before the were

considered cheesy.

Also,

they aren't cheesy

considering how easy

they are to kill.

And I still use

the splatcat.

They are still very effective...

[Victor Morson]

Large Lasers are feeling underwhelming with the rise of the PPC, I agree with you. I'm not sure they're UP, I still use them on many designs, but they could use something special.

I'm a big fan of reducing laser firing durations over changing their damage numbers, to further improve accuracy, though.

[Roland]

Victor Morson, on 11 April 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Large Lasers are feeling underwhelming with the rise of the PPC, I agree with you. I'm not sure they're UP, I still use them on many designs, but they could use something special.

I'm a big fan of reducing laser firing durations over changing their damage numbers, to further improve accuracy, though.

Eh, if LL's are still being widely used (which they are) then I don't think they need to be changed.. because, as it stands, the PPC's ability to dump damage on a single location is the main reason to use them (along with some additional range). In exchange for this, you have to be able to lead a target.

Lasers are instant hit.. If they were as easy to dump all their damage onto a single panel as a PPC, through shorter discharge times, then they'd just replace PPC's.

The LL is generally where I think it needs to be... although I'd probably support making the pulse lasers have shorter times, since you're already making serious sacrifices in terms of heat and weight.

[Ngamok]

To be honest, a longer recharge time around 4s from 3s isn't a big deal. In mechs like a Dagon or Hunchback or a Trebuchet where you can only put in at most two heat is generally an issue so even at 3s, you can't keep up with the heat. On larger mechs, if you only have 2 you can but then you have those mechs that put on 4-6 of them. Heat again becaomes an issue there.

Then you have mechs like the Highlander-HM and the Cataphract-3D who use them in conjunction with their Guass Rifle which is a 4s cooldown. Those mechs won't be affected because they will generally hit you on the 4s timer also because they like to bunny hop. Forgot to add Ilya since I see people use that set up on that as well.

Edited by Ngamok, 11 April 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

Ngamok, on 11 April 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

To be honest, a longer recharge time around 4s from 3s isn't a big deal. In mechs like a Dagon or Hunchback or a Trebuchet where you can only put in at most two heat is generally an issue so even at 3s, you can't keep up with the heat. On larger mechs, if you only have 2 you can but then you have those mechs that put on 4-6 of them. Heat again becaomes an issue there.

Then you have mechs like the Highlander-HM and the Cataphract-3D who use them in conjunction with their Guass Rifle which is a 4s cooldown. Those mechs won't be affected because they will generally hit you on the 4s timer also because they like to bunny hop. Forgot to add Ilya since I see people use that set up on that as well.

A longer recharge,

gives the 6PPC stalker

more time to cool down

making it less likely

to be the victim

of overheating.

Is that what you are

trying to accomplish?