40 replies to this topic

[a rabid chihuahua]

I think there should be a screen shake for the thrust for the jets trying to launch a 20-100ton machine in the air. Its makes more than enough sense.

[Willie Sauerland]

jeffsw6, on 11 April 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

That's all I read. Where are the medic units on the map and will they repair my other components as well, or is it only arms?

I'm sorry to say,

but they will

have to perform an

amputation.

They won't be able

to save anything...

[King Arthur IV]

it is hard to hit jump snipers i agree on that but they are not invincible. if you choose to play snipe off and you are trading poorly it might be time to change tactic from snipe off to brawl.

i dont get why people keep trying to trade blows (sniping) if they are not coming out on top. (if your not built to have a long range high alpha, why are you trying to trade?) i watch many people realize way way too late they need to flank and try take the fight into closer range. by the time they start moving they have been chipped away so much from the sniping, they are basically useless in a brawl.

pro tip to people who hate pop tarts: figure out if you and your team are trading poorly in the first 1-2 shots, then move!!!! you move either way. if you trade poorly, you move into a better fighting range. if you trade well, you move into finish them off. dont just stand in the same grid location for 10mins while getting chipped away.

rule of thumb (there are exceptions but this works for most): sniper boats run hot and/or heavy. that being said they either have xl or they are slow.

move it or lose it.

Edited by King Arthur IV, 11 April 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[Caleb Lee]

ID-10-T Error... L2P... Just kidding. In all seriousness though quit crying nerf every time someone kills you and doesn't fight you on your terms. That or quit playing games with any modicum of tactics.

Most pop-tarts as stated:

A) Are slow or have XL engines... if you can't figure this one out then you don't have the brains to post.
Expose themselves to make a shot... time your reply for when they emerge.
C) Pay attention, if a sniping not *snipping* battle isn't in your favor, then disengage, take cover or use it to move into brawling range.

Please learn to use that lump on top of your shoulders before posting nonsense in the forums. Thank you.

[Vrekgar]

Valdez Raptor, on 11 April 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

I think the idea of half the team jumping shooting like they do is relatively ******** and far too easy. This "poptarting" that people call it needs a serious look into. A good solution is increasing screen shake while jump jetting to make it more difficult for someone to aim and shoot at another mech at a distance. Jump jets weren't designed for this.

I also like to know why all the anti-lrm people aren't up in arms about this. I mean one of their arguments against LRMs being a good weapon was it was to "Soften the enemy up" before a brawl. That their use was hurting the brawl of the game. These jump snipers are doing far worse than any LRM's did (when they weren't broken)

Where are the Mechwarrior is a brawling game when all these jump snipers are making it into a jump snipping game.

And you can't tell me there's nothing wrong with it when more and more people in every match are doing it. I see half a team doing the same tactic in several matches in a row you know there's an imbalance in it.

Most poptarts are either slow, or are running an XL engine. Shoot the torso off and wipe out over half their weapons.

The BEST way to balance them imho is to make the cockpit and aiming shake like crazy when your jumping up, but you can stabilize on the fall down. This way you have to jump higher than you need now to get the same shot, and you dont have perfect aim as your going up so you have to stop the jump to shoot accurately.

THAT would take more skill and still allow those skilled players to do it.

[Davers]

NotEnoughDakkaDakka, on 11 April 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Why did I spend half an hour writing this?

tl;dr

Snipers were supposed to be the answer to LRM boats. In fact the AC/2's RoF was increased for exactly this purpose.

[Teralitha]

Team Leader, on 11 April 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

But to seriously (using a spider as an example) think that your rockets are firing out of your feet, flying though the air at 150 Kph, you're targeting systems can achieve pinpoint 100% perfect accuracy no matter what?

Real life jets travel faster than that and can do it.

[Davers]

Teralitha, on 11 April 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

Real life jets travel faster than that and can do it.

Here we go with that 'real world' stuff again...

[FinnMcKool]

are players jumping with scissors now?

[Lukoi Banacek]

Valdez Raptor, on 11 April 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

I think the idea of half the team jumping shooting like they do is relatively ******** and far too easy. This "poptarting" that people call it needs a serious look into. A good solution is increasing screen shake while jump jetting to make it more difficult for someone to aim and shoot at another mech at a distance. Jump jets weren't designed for this.

I also like to know why all the anti-lrm people aren't up in arms about this. I mean one of their arguments against LRMs being a good weapon was it was to "Soften the enemy up" before a brawl. That their use was hurting the brawl of the game. These jump snipers are doing far worse than any LRM's did (when they weren't broken)

Where are the Mechwarrior is a brawling game when all these jump snipers are making it into a jump snipping game.

And you can't tell me there's nothing wrong with it when more and more people in every match are doing it. I see half a team doing the same tactic in several matches in a row you know there's an imbalance in it.

Your opinion is noted.

I feel the opposite. I'm not threatened or concerned by poptart builds. Very VERY few people do it well, even after all of this time (it's not exactly a new technique) and it's certainly counterable. The viable builds for poptarting additionally are limiting as well (they have some fairly reasonable flaws that counterbalance their ability to stand off effectively) so I don't see them as unbalancing at all.

That people are doing them more often is cyclical imo, and less an issue of some change to play dynamics that have allowed the tactic to somehow be overpowering. The nerfing of SRM/LRM certainly made those that embrace "cheese" builds gravitate somewhere, perhaps this is what you're seeing.

[DrSecretStache]

Heh. I'm using it, though I do less poptarting, as it does fairly happyfying damage if your opponent is preoccupied. It's fun, but definitely not invincible.

I do much better with my 4x 2gauss 1ERLL build...which incidentally goes slower than molasses.

[Sephlock]

Roadbeer, on 11 April 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Poptarting or sniping in general is the meta because LRMs are dialed back (probably the 100th time I've written that since the rollback on LRM damage).
LRMs are the natural predator of snipers.
Please understand how the WHOLE weapon system works before calling for Buffs/Nerfs.

Why do people keep saying this? The entire point of Poptarting is that you aren't visible, then you pop up and shoot, then you aren't visible. That is exactly the worst scenario for an enemy LRM boat, aside from one in which you have ECM, in which case they can't target you at all, let alone miss you with their volley.

[LordBraxton]

snip this

[Wintersdark]

Blane, on 11 April 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

I think there should be a screen shake for the thrust for the jets trying to launch a 20-100ton machine in the air. Its makes more than enough sense.

There is substantial screen shake. It depends on what you're launching how long it lasts. For a Heavy Metal, it lasts about 50% of your burn with 5 jump jets, 70% with 4.

It's much less noticable in the smaller mechs though.

[AimRobot]

My only issue with it is that jumpjets allow you to fire while exposing less then if you peaked over a mountain, dont know if its that the model doesnt follow the hitbox with jumpjets or something.
But a 3D standing on a mountain need to expose him more for torso weapon than a jumpjetting one.

Edited by AimRobot, 11 April 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[Burnsidhe]

I snipe back. When someone's popping up over the ridge like a yo-yo, it skylines them nicely, and the majority of 'jump snipers' are excessively predictable. On the way up, they get a pair of PPC's in the face.

[Wintersdark]

Regardless, poptarting isn't overpowered. Poptarts are pretty easily countered, and a full poptart team is in a lot of trouble once you close.

And, unless you're a coward, they can't really stop it. Jump snipers have several major drawbacks, some of which have been mentioned earlier:

Hot builds, they cannot keep firing.
Low DPS. They hit hard, but have a long delay between shots, and being very hot builds they need to cool down periodically too. This works fine while poptarting, where you can drop into cover and cool, but leaves you extremely vulnerable up close and personal.
Explosive gauss is explosive. Without the gauss, they lose a lot of firepower and are typically left with just PPC's (useless up close and fairly hot) or ERPPC's (still hitty, but extremely hot).
If there aren't zounds of poptarts, you know you've got at least 3-4 seconds between their shots to advance.
They've only got a limited window to fire in once they've started their pop. TURN. Don't let thim cockpit you, and you can take a good few volleys. Poptarts rely on skillful/lucky headshots to be effective, and you can deny this if you're paying attention.
The more poptarts there are, the harder it is for them to be unpredictable. Even if they move after firing, another will generally pop up pretty much right where the last popped.
Most significantly: The vast majority of the time, poptarts are just jumping straight vertically. There's a second or so at the top of their arc where they are essentially hovering motionless. This is a dream opportunity: smoke 'em while they're there.

[Shinikaru]

Valdez Raptor, on 11 April 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

I think the idea of half the team jumping shooting like they do is relatively ******** and far too easy. This "poptarting" that people call it needs a serious look into. A good solution is increasing screen shake while jump jetting to make it more difficult for someone to aim and shoot at another mech at a distance. Jump jets weren't designed for this.

I also like to know why all the anti-lrm people aren't up in arms about this. I mean one of their arguments against LRMs being a good weapon was it was to "Soften the enemy up" before a brawl. That their use was hurting the brawl of the game. These jump snipers are doing far worse than any LRM's did (when they weren't broken)

Where are the Mechwarrior is a brawling game when all these jump snipers are making it into a jump snipping game.

And you can't tell me there's nothing wrong with it when more and more people in every match are doing it. I see half a team doing the same tactic in several matches in a row you know there's an imbalance in it.

I don't want to be a debbie downer to this argument, but seriously??

Noone makes anyone start a match and then be so dead at the stick that they just either walk alone into the open, OR refuse to take cover.
I have yet to find a plausible jump-snipe POSITION where I could either
A. Not get flanked, or
B. Not get counter hit. or
C. NOT End up Totally Ignored (by the enemy) for being unwilling to move and not having much los except on a narrow field.

Honestly, all I can say here is, it's not an issue, you need to be more mobile, and that there are certian tactical advantages to every map and available firing positions.

STOP CONFUSING TACTICS WITH STRATAGY.

Tactics = take up a good position.

Stratagy = Know how to counter a tactical advantage.

The former is far far easier than the latter.

This isn't a balance thing, it's a brain thing. (also teamwork!)

Edited by Shinikaru, 11 April 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Rocdocta]

i have 5 ERLLs on my awesome. i love it when pop targets do their thing. i see it more than pop tarting and more like clay pigeon shooting. I imagine myself saying "PULL!" and the guy jumps up to cop 5 shots. no cover, so slow and so predictable flight path. my heat is a pain though.

As with defeating real world snipers, the key is using cover and dont be in the same exposed spot twice. he jumps, you run forwards and close the gap. if theres no cover, dodge and use weight of numbers. heck just get a "fast" atlas to provide a shield if you move at a similar speed.

i wonder if a flamer would provide any cover from accurate component shooting? just a thought.

Edited by Rocdocta, 11 April 2013 - 07:22 PM.

[Victor Morson]

People whining about pop tarting in a MechWarrior game?

Why, I never!