119 replies to this topic

[ElLocoMarko]

It's about double heat sinks.  
I have plenty of low-heat builds but almost everyone of them nearly doubles its ability to keep firing when you double the heat sinks.  I have played 15 mechs.  ONE of them does not benefit from DHS and that is dual gauss.

I don't even buy a new mech unless I have 2.2 million more than the list price.  
The champion mechs is a decent idea.  The only Trial mech I ever played which performed well was the Treb 7M and guess what... Endo steel and double heat sinks.

I saw someone talking about moving into Dragon with their cadet bonus.  There should be a buyer's remorse where you can sell for full price within 5 days of a mech purchase.

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 12 April 2013 - 10:54 AM.

[DCLXVI]

GM Reppu, on 12 April 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

I think the "Wait and see" approach is best here. Remember kids, it's a BETA product. Matchmaker isn't staying as is, etc etc.

As a gamer myself, I would prefer a game with a steep learning curve. I can deal with losing my first 100 matches if I have to, I'm not afraid of losing.

.. I'm also a fan of MMOs that make you lose EXP when you die.

bah the whole thing losing something when you die makes the game so much better, sense of risk changes peoples gameplay (edit: if clans come out and are perfectly balanced with the rest of the mechs... I will be severly disappointed, and 2 or 3 days in, you will be too)

Edited by DCLXVI, 12 April 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[Denno]

I'm a bit torn. I want new folks to stay and the stubborn/tenacious ones to thrive but I don't want it to be Hello Kitty, and I sure as hell don't want it to be EVE Online lawlz-can-flipping-teh-noobs, ya know?

Maybe the solution atm, beyond a continuous examination and tweaking of ELO, may be early, clear, obvious information and tutorials. When someone registers, the e-mail they get ought to have a nice, practical guide to early success and links to tutorials, at the least.

[Kraven Kor]

Denno, on 12 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

I'm a bit torn. I want new folks to stay and the stubborn/tenacious ones to thrive but I don't want it to be Hello Kitty, and I sure as hell don't want it to be EVE Online lawlz-can-flipping-teh-noobs, ya know?

Maybe the solution atm, beyond a continuous examination and tweaking of ELO, may be early, clear, obvious information and tutorials. When someone registers, the e-mail they get ought to have a nice, practical guide to early success and links to tutorials, at the least.

That's kind of my take on it.

I don't want to punish new or "bad" players, but I do want the game to be challenging and to not "hold anyone's hand" too much.

[I am]

Kraven Kor, on 12 April 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

That's kind of my take on it.

I don't want to punish new or "bad" players, but I do want the game to be challenging and to not "hold anyone's hand" too much.

So you clearly don't support the raven then? Reminds me of my first bike. The one with training wheels.

[Mycrus]

Mack1, on 11 April 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

This game needs a solo queue system asap to stop this premade v pug slaughter.

definitely premade...

[Zylo]

Blood Skar, on 12 April 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

I'm not a new player by any means, however - i completly agree with this.
Solo queue makes so much sense - i cant believe they havn't implemented it.

To the peeps in other threads saying solo players have as much chance dropping WITH a premade...well statistically you dont.
Here's why.
16 players drop, 8 each side - say there is 1 premade of 4 - that leaves 12 solo players.
So you have a 4 in 12 chance of dropping WITH the premade but a 8 in 12 chance of NOT dropping with a premade...

This is why my win/loss is bad but my kill/death is good ... because im dropping with more premades on the other team - but im a good enough player to at least drop 1 or 2 mechs before i go down (usually..apart from the odd bad match).

If what the devs say about more players running in groups than solo (ATD #34 answers) then this is NOT true. To have more groups than solo players the average match would need a minimum of 2x 4-man groups. In most cases I suspect it's a combination of a 2 and 3 man group on each team. As long as the number and size of pre-made groups are balanced on each team there shouldn't be any problem but it's not clear if this is being done as weight class balance is often way off.

Edited by Zylo, 12 April 2013 - 12:49 PM.

[Dishevel]

Vermaxx, on 11 April 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

PGI has never denied people need VOIP to do well.
PGI has never denied that their in game VOIP needs work.

There are literally dozens of ways to meet people, and create four man teams (glorified pugs) even as a brand new player. While I recognize not everyone wants to do this (I hate playing with all strangers, but I will if constantly losing), it is the only way to really level the playing field.

I don't really know if C3 will ever be as useful as Teamspeak servers, because AT BEST it puts the ad-hoc group into one VOIP channel. That doesn't help if a lot of the people in the team are still uninterested in working together. At least if you are in a four man VOIP, all four people somewhat intend to work together.

Yes, there should be some kind of separate queue for the new people, but in all liklihood "Mystical Community Warfare"® is going to have traininer worlds for new people to fight on. Who knows. A lot of shart simply isn't a priority in this game mode right now because it is a high functioning demo of a mystical finished product.

I think you are wrong.
Built in VOIP would be a boon.
Even if you are not on it you could hear your team mates. This is a good thing and would encourage paying together.
Also. I do 10 - 15 games a day at work. I would love to be able to hear my team even if I can not speak myself.

[I am]

Its more an issue of ratios. You put 4 aces together, well elo may not have 4 ace lonewolfs to compenstate. Even if you match 4 for 4, some 4 mans are terrible, while some are awesome. Just make it 20v 20 and keep the premade team size. That should help alot. I dont really like th eidea of seperate queues either, when you already have 2. Make the random queue solo only maybe, limit teams to 2 perhaps, figure out some way to herd the pub farmers into the competitive queue where they belong. They may not like it, losing their easy win experience to the goon swarm, but it sure beats scaring away the majority of new entrants.

Bout time they got a dose of their own medicine anyways.

Giving a random group voip is not gonna help. its like giving 4 marines m16s, and 4 chimps m16s. ya they have the same tools, but its not gonna end pretty. On top of that, voip will further strain an already laggy game.

Edited by I am, 12 April 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[jay35]

Game needs two pools or queues:
1-2 players, true PUGs
3+ premades

1-2 players because it's nice for new players to have a friend on their team to help them get acquainted with the teamplay aspects of the game.
3+ because they could finally allow all pre-mades of any size of 3 players or more to combine into teams.

Should work out a lot better than the current system where coordinated pre-mades can drop into PUG games.

[Zylo]

jay35, on 12 April 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Game needs two pools or queues:
1-2 players, true PUGs
3+ premades

1-2 players because it's nice for new players to have a friend on their team to help them get acquainted with the teamplay aspects of the game.
3+ because they could finally allow all pre-mades of any size of 3 players or more to combine into teams.

Should work out a lot better than the current system where coordinated pre-mades can drop into PUG games.

This system would do nothing to stop multiple 2-man teams from trying to sync-drop into the pug games. Even restricting it to solo players you would see groups on TS trying to all solo drop into the same game and this would probably have a high chance of success at lower population times.

[King Arthur IV]

they could put in a leveling up system. where new players play other new players and/or low elo players, once you reach a certain level you will be placed in with everyone else.

they can buff trail mechs.

they can put premade vs higher elo because there is a clear advantage.

they can do many things to balance the new player experience. they really should look into other options besides 3pv.

[Kristov Kerensky]

EVE and Tribes..those games didn't have learning curves at all, they had a freaking CLIFF you had to surmount in order to JUST be a newb.

Funny how well those games were loved..EVE is still around and Tribes is actually making a comeback with the new version out, which btw, also has a steep learning curve, although it's NOTHING like the original's cliff.

MW2 was the same, no curve, a cliff, and that was for the single player campaign which had tutorials. What other games have you played that let you move THIS way while facing THAT way? When MW2 came out, there was 1 or 2 that did that, Earthsiege stuff(later to become Tribes), and that was it. Today you have..uhm...well, Battlefield games come to mind, driving a tank or WoT..naturally. Otherwise..it's not something you see in most of the FPS style games, definately not in most of the MMOs out there.

So..a tutorial will help the newbs learn to drive a Mech, how to deal with heat and all that fun stuff....right...just like it did for MW2, MW3 and MW4 and Tribes, which btw, DID have an offline tutorial that very few people ever bothered to use, just like every OTHER game out. Players want to jump in and KILL OTHER PLAYERS NOWZ!!!!!!!!!!11!11!1!1 They don't need no stinking tutorials, it's a GAME, point and click baby, what else do they need to know?

MMOs usually FORCE you to take the tutorial, it's how you get into the game world in the first place, go here, kill that, see this, learn what keys do what, what skills/spells/weapons/whatever does whatever they do. Good, now you can at least walk forward...oh...no, can't walk forward still..well thank god for autopilot! Not a joke, this isn't the only game I'm beta testing right now and it's fracking amusing as all hells and annoying as all hells to see the stupidity that's SO overstocked in the gaming population right now.

PGI will put in a tutorial, already in the list of things to come for Release in Sept. Elo is getting revamped, new players will start with a LOWER Elo rating then they have been, AND they are even adding in tonnage matching to the MM system.

Mack1, you can't be all that great of a Mech jock if that was your experience in a Trial Awesome. I've used it myself and it's one of the better Trial Mechs. You got dropped with players of the SAME Elo as you, I don't care what you THOUGHT you saw, a gold badge doesn't make someone good, it just means they invested money in PGI, there's no skill that's implied or applied via that badge...seriously...you think that means a good player? Wow...that's just...wow. Psst..there's no gold badge by my nick ingame, people have no clue that I invested in PGI ingame, so they don't attribute my skill to that gold badge. I have friends who've been playing MWO before I got into the closed beta, gold badges all(I got in to CB and invested after a month of testing btw) and those guys, well...they make my dog look like a Mech God and he ain't even got thumbs! Love of the game and the willingness to invest in it does NOT mean you can PLAY the game for jack...might want to get that 'golds = mech gods' sillyness right out of your mind, there's no relationship between them.

[Deamonition]

Mack1, on 11 April 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

I started a brand new account this week because I was really wanting to see if the new matchmaking and cadet bonus was going to keep new players...playing. I am sorry to report that my experience was utterly dreadful.

First up let me say that I know I am not the best MWO player but my K/D ratio is very good, I am very experienced and I am certainly classed as a decent player.

So I went with the Awesome trial mech with 3 PPC and a Small Laser, I am used to using 4 x PPC's in one of my stalkers so I am pretty good with this weapon. I was quite amazed to find a elite founder in pretty much my first battle. I was even more suprised to find a 4 man premade on the other team (yes I asked after every battle). Infact one group of 4 players were turning up all the time, two of them were in Hero mechs

So to cut a long story short I played the 25 Cadet bonus matches, got a Stalker 3F after about 18, kitted it out as much as possible with my limited budget and my final stats were:

K/D 13/17
Win/Loss 5/20 Yes I only won 5 games
Premades faced 25/25 That's right guys, every single game was against 4 man premades, sometimes we had some but quite often we never. I also noticed players who were vets, they had been playing for months, their Mechs were all pimped out while I was in a lousy trial mech.

No wonder so many people quit, I found the whole thing very frustrating as I was facing off against good players with good mechs while I was in a little toaster with 3 PPC's, I just got annhilated, I am amazed I even got 13 kills tbh.

I can honestly say that in years and years of gaming MWO is by far the toughest and most brutal introduction to a game for new players that I have ever seen. I would like to invite the Devs to roll a new account and play the first 25 solo and see for themselves.

This game needs a solo queue system asap to stop this premade v pug slaughter.

The MWO Matchmaking system is utterly broken. That's the only thing that can be said.

[MadCat02]

Mack1, on 11 April 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

I started a brand new account this week because I was really wanting to see if the new matchmaking and cadet bonus was going to keep new players...playing. I am sorry to report that my experience was utterly dreadful.

First up let me say that I know I am not the best MWO player but my K/D ratio is very good, I am very experienced and I am certainly classed as a decent player.

So I went with the Awesome trial mech with 3 PPC and a Small Laser, I am used to using 4 x PPC's in one of my stalkers so I am pretty good with this weapon. I was quite amazed to find a elite founder in pretty much my first battle. I was even more suprised to find a 4 man premade on the other team (yes I asked after every battle). Infact one group of 4 players were turning up all the time, two of them were in Hero mechs

So to cut a long story short I played the 25 Cadet bonus matches, got a Stalker 3F after about 18, kitted it out as much as possible with my limited budget and my final stats were:

K/D 13/17
Win/Loss 5/20 Yes I only won 5 games
Premades faced 25/25 That's right guys, every single game was against 4 man premades, sometimes we had some but quite often we never. I also noticed players who were vets, they had been playing for months, their Mechs were all pimped out while I was in a lousy trial mech.

No wonder so many people quit, I found the whole thing very frustrating as I was facing off against good players with good mechs while I was in a little toaster with 3 PPC's, I just got annhilated, I am amazed I even got 13 kills tbh.

I can honestly say that in years and years of gaming MWO is by far the toughest and most brutal introduction to a game for new players that I have ever seen. I would like to invite the Devs to roll a new account and play the first 25 solo and see for themselves.

This game needs a solo queue system asap to stop this premade v pug slaughter.

I been playing MW all my life . When i started this game i was completly lost . I know its brutal but eveyone went though that 25-50 phase

[Deamonition]

MadCat02, on 12 April 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

I been playing MW all my life . When i started this game i was completly lost . I know its brutal but eveyone went though that 25-50 phase

If you would read carefully you would understand that the guy created a SECOND account... He's not a new player. Just an "average" player that was curious to see what the matchmaking system would do with him if he created a new account.

It seems the matchmaking system thought it was a good idea to put a new guy in a pug against premades and Founders....

Edited by Deamonition, 12 April 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Deamonition, on 12 April 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

If you would read carefully you would understand that the guy created a SECOND account... not a brand new one. He's not a new player. Just an "average" player that was curious to see what the matchmaking system would do with him if he created a new account.

It seems the matchmaking system thought it was a good idea to put a new guy in a pug against premades and Founders....

OH MY GOD NO! THE MM PUT HIM AGAINST PREMADES AND FOUNDERS!

Because we KNOW there's no way new players couldn't get on TS and group up right? I mean, that's just fracking IMPOSSIBLE! And we all know that Founders are MECH GODS!

Seriously...this is how you judge if the MM is working or not, there's premades and founders playing against you?

It's not working great, no one denies that, PGI is making changes to fix that so the game are more balanced skillwise then they currently are. But a premade does NOT equal a group of players who've been here since closed beta and a Founder tag does not denote any level of skill, just that you invested money.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Denno, on 12 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

I'm a bit torn. I want new folks to stay and the stubborn/tenacious ones to thrive but I don't want it to be Hello Kitty, and I sure as hell don't want it to be EVE Online lawlz-can-flipping-teh-noobs, ya know?

I dunno; have you played EVE lately? Even the traditionally hardest game has taken on a noob friendly approach lately.

[Deamonition]

Kristov Kerensky, on 12 April 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

OH MY GOD NO! THE MM PUT HIM AGAINST PREMADES AND FOUNDERS!

Because we KNOW there's no way new players couldn't get on TS and group up right? I mean, that's just fracking IMPOSSIBLE! And we all know that Founders are MECH GODS!

Seriously...this is how you judge if the MM is working or not, there's premades and founders playing against you?

It's not working great, no one denies that, PGI is making changes to fix that so the game are more balanced skillwise then they currently are. But a premade does NOT equal a group of players who've been here since closed beta and a Founder tag does not denote any level of skill, just that you invested money.

Don't try to be a smartass. Because I didn't write a full thesis on the forum on the matter doesn't mean I have nothing more to say on the Matchmaking system.

We all know it's not working at all, and the situation that was explained here is just ONE example. I didn't want to go all in and explain in details why what happened to that guy should not have happened... It seems you are relatively dumb, so I will (I can also be a smartass) :

1- Ya, new guys can go in premade groups. But why would you put a new guy in a pug against premades?
2- The fact that a new guy has the same ELO as a Founder, who seems was good enough (from what we can understand reading what he said) shows that the ELO calculation is broken. How can a good player, who's a Founder (therefore with many games played) can be in the same game as a brand new player?

There are many more examples, but these two makes us think that matchmaking system is not working well.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Like machineguns, now that theres a command chair MM thread, I expect all MM talk to be silenced and pointed at that thread. so we cant talk about the MM anymore. SHHHH

Why they dont just take the complain thread of the week, make an official thread and start locking all mention of it, pointing to that thread, I dont know. It would clear up the general forums, then they could be generally about nothing at all lol