95 replies to this topic

[kitazari]

Texas Merc, on 12 April 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

Holy crap! Your Hud works!

I say we confiscate his hud and dissect it to see what makes it work.

[Trauglodyte]

3rdworld, on 12 April 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

This is why alpine sucks. No cover at all.

Desert is a large map but moving up into brawling range is not impossible. Alpine is absolute garbage.

Easily my least favorite map.

Its almost like you should have some long range weapons or something. Crazy, I know. How dare they make weapons go further than 270m.

[KinLuu]

Vassago Rain, on 12 April 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

They were pretty okay before. No one complained on SRMs. It was the A1 that was broken, and for reasons that don't relate to SRM damage.[...]

Selective memory.

A lot of people complained about SRMs. And they were OP.
Now they are UP. The golden middle should be 2 dmg/missile.

[Trauglodyte]

Once they get rid of splash, which isn't a horrible effect if the radius was like 0.5m, missiles will get boosted again. But honestly, a 2.0 SRM and a 1-1.2 LRM isn't a horrible thing. Boosting missile speed is the real necessary change.

[Shumabot]

The fractals look better than the playdough nothingness textures on most of the hills in the foreground.

[Shumabot]

Vassago Rain, on 12 April 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

They were pretty okay before. No one complained on SRMs. It was the A1 that was broken, and for reasons that don't relate to SRM damage. With them reduced in power, I still pop people in two shots. One removes the armor, the other kills. It's not 40 damage more than they have life, but the result is the same.

Meanwhile, my atlas has lost the left hook. So the problem wasn't solved, but everything is now inferior to long-ranged fighting. We needed that left hook to avoid the humping, and make the field fair. It's really good to do 45 damage with 3 guns, but they have a heatspike, they have almost no range, and they don't have any kind of first strike ability.

I complained constantly. The SRM was a huge problem that defined what mechs you were and were not allowed to use. The best cents, hunches, awesomes, atlai, stalkers, jenners, commandos, ravens, and jagers were the ones that were boating SRMs. It's all you used yourself, it's all kong used. That's not ok. They were so far from ok that it's insane. Are they a bit underpower now? Yeah. Is poptarting and ridgehumping a problem? Yeah. But you don't break one gun just to counteract another. That's a race to the bottom where everyone is one shotting everyone all the time. There needs to be an acceptable dps baseline and SRMs were so ludicrously over it that no one even noticed when they were doing up to 12x damage for half a year. A reticule shake fix and better map design should lower the relative power of sniper teams. Alpine is the map an ***** who just learned how to use a terrain painting tool five minutes before would make during a commercial break between episodes of the real housewives. It should be removed or heavily altered, it destroys what already nearly non existent balance is in this game. You can't realistically base your weapon opinions off of it.

Edited by Shumabot, 12 April 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[Madw0lf]

Vassago Rain, on 12 April 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

there is just another ridgehumper.

Had a match on that map last night, running my 4G. Came from the other base, around an up the hill to right about where you are an tore apart a Dragon with my AC20. Then proceeded to do a number on his fresh HM friend who tried to come help. He only got me cause I ran out of ammo.

TL;DR, range means nothing if you know what youre doing

[Shumabot]

Madw0lf, on 12 April 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Had a match on that map last night, running my 4G. Came from the other base, around an up the hill to right about where you are an tore apart a Dragon with my AC20. Then proceeded to do a number on his fresh HM friend who tried to come help. He only got me cause I ran out of ammo.

TL;DR, range means nothing if you know what youre doing

No, you just got lucky. All they had to do was stand on the hill in the middle of that picture to disintegrate you and your ac20s.

TL:DR, range means nothing when you're fighting uncoordinated idiots

Edited by Shumabot, 12 April 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Madw0lf, on 12 April 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Had a match on that map last night, running my 4G. Came from the other base, around an up the hill to right about where you are an tore apart a Dragon with my AC20. Then proceeded to do a number on his fresh HM friend who tried to come help. He only got me cause I ran out of ammo.

TL;DR, range means nothing if you know what youre doing

So you chewed up a Dragon from 900m+ eh? Color me impressed. The AC's 810m maximum range must have been a real drag on ammo...

[Trauglodyte]

The funny thing is that it doesn't matter what map PGI gives us, we will always find a way to screw up their ideas of how fights can occur on them. The ridge line is just a convenient place to stop and wait until one team blinks. Its the epitome of a Chinese/Mexican stand off (choose which one you want, there). The radio tower ridge is always laughable, though. I love when an entire team goes in there cause you can only fit 3 mechs side by side by side wiht enough room to move and you cant shoot the folks up above/they can shoot the people below due to the angle. And only lights seem willing to swing around the back side.

[MurnShaw]

I was told that most of the HUD stuff is done via flash. Have you tried updating flashplayer and AIR? I have a NVIDIA card and I've never had rainbow polygons.

[Madw0lf]

Shumabot, on 12 April 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

No, you just got lucky. All they had to do was stand on the hill in the middle of that picture to disintegrate you and your ac20s.

TL:DR, range means nothing when you're fighting uncoordinated idiots

I did get lucky, in that I didnt run into any of his friends while I was behind the cover I was using, yes.

MaddMaxx, on 12 April 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

So you chewed up a Dragon from 900m+ eh? Color me impressed. The AC's 810m maximum range must have been a real drag on ammo...

No, I chewed him up from under 100m, I came from the lower base up to that hill.

[Ralatar]

KinLuu, on 12 April 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

1. Brawling is a bad idea on open maps.
2. Ridges are a fantastic position on open maps.
3. Poptarding works great on open maps with hills and ridges.

This has been known since MW3/4.

Oh, and it will be even better once hsr for ballistics is getting patched in.

Even with prepatch SRMs, ridgecamping and jumpsiniping would be the No.1 tactic for Alpine.

Nice thought.....if we KNEW what world/map/conditions we where being dropped in like in the other games. Intel is a wonderful thing but I guess that's not available in the 31st century...like color infra-red that works at greater than 600 meters...or night vision that has real range and real contrast....but I guess that's only available in the 21st century..... =/

[Vassago Rain]

Trauglodyte, on 12 April 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

The funny thing is that it doesn't matter what map PGI gives us, we will always find a way to screw up their ideas of how fights can occur on them. The ridge line is just a convenient place to stop and wait until one team blinks. Its the epitome of a Chinese/Mexican stand off (choose which one you want, there). The radio tower ridge is always laughable, though. I love when an entire team goes in there cause you can only fit 3 mechs side by side by side wiht enough room to move and you cant shoot the folks up above/they can shoot the people below due to the angle. And only lights seem willing to swing around the back side.

The maps we have are all cauldrons with some kind of feature in the middle.
Alpine is a good example. You're in a valley, and there's a big mountain in the middle.

[Shumabot]

Vassago Rain, on 12 April 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

The maps we have are all cauldrons with some kind of feature in the middle.
Alpine is a good example. You're in a valley, and there's a big mountain in the middle.

All maps everywhere are content bowls, PGI is exceptionally bad at dissuading people from just charging directly towards the enemy spawn point. No maps really force a pathing decision, the closest they come is waterline or road in forest colony and that was accidental. For maps like this the game needs randomized spawn locations, but PGi hasn't discovered thirty year old best practices yet.

Edited by Shumabot, 12 April 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Shumabot, on 12 April 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

All maps everywhere are content bowls, PGI is exceptionally bad at dissuading people from just charging directly towards the enemy spawn point. No maps really force a pathing decision, the closest they come is waterline or road in forest colony and that was accidental. For maps like this the game needs randomized spawn locations, but PGi hasn't discovered thirty year old best practices yet.

The point of the content bowl is to encourage areas for players to congregate and fight. Neither PGI nor the player base wants games to occur where you pass each other in the night only to turn into a foot race to the cap. Forest Colony has the water/shore area and the absurd arch (why do people fight there?), Frozen City has the crash (the absolute worst of all of them), River City has Upper/Lower depending on where people go (the water is a death trap and should be avoided), Caustic has the cauldron (awful), Alpine has the inner valley, and Tourmaline has the Star Gate. The problem with the first few maps is there are no other options. You don't have to fight in the valley in Alpine but people are brain trained to go in a straight line. Tourmaline always ends up around the Star Gate but isn't always right there. That is why Tourmaline is so great.

[Shumabot]

Trauglodyte, on 12 April 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

The point of the content bowl is to encourage areas for players to congregate and fight. Neither PGI nor the player base wants games to occur where you pass each other in the night only to turn into a foot race to the cap. Forest Colony has the water/shore area and the absurd arch (why do people fight there?), Frozen City has the crash (the absolute worst of all of them), River City has Upper/Lower depending on where people go (the water is a death trap and should be avoided), Caustic has the cauldron (awful), Alpine has the inner valley, and Tourmaline has the Star Gate. The problem with the first few maps is there are no other options. You don't have to fight in the valley in Alpine but people are brain trained to go in a straight line. Tourmaline always ends up around the Star Gate but isn't always right there. That is why Tourmaline is so great.

You just said it was ok that the maps were like that because it's designed for people to congregate in the middle rather than pass eachother and cap, but then you said it's a shame people aren't doing that on alpine because people are "trained" not to do that. Chose whether or not its ok if people do that to you.

Tourmaline is terrible for pathing, the heat maps show people killing and dying in the same two areas in the vast, vast majority of games. Tourmaline is great because it allows for short range and long range teams to both function. It's not like virtually every other PGI map where a map is either a victory for the ranged team or the short team. The only other map like that is frozen city. PGI will never solve the problem of everyone always fighting in the same location in every map because their spawn points and game modes encourage people to always run straight at eachother.

Edited by Shumabot, 12 April 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Shumabot, on 12 April 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

You just said it was ok that the maps were like that because it's designed for people to congregate in the middle rather than pass eachother and cap, but then you said it's a shame people aren't doing that on alpine because people are "trained" not to do that. Chose whether or not its ok if people do that to you.

Tourmaline is terrible for pathing, the heat maps show people killing and dying in the same two areas in the vast, vast majority of games. Tourmaline is great because it allows for short range and long range teams to both function. It's not like virtually every other PGI map where a map is either a victory for the ranged team or the short team. The only other map like that is frozen city. PGI will never solve the problem of everyone always fighting in the same location in every map because their spawn points and game modes encourage people to always run straight at eachother.

No, what I said was that PGI designed maps with a centralized combat location but also with smaller minor areas to also fight. Players mostly act like cattle and go in a straight line until they run into the enemy. PGI could build extensive and intricate maps to avoid this but people will still congregate to the areas closest to the easiest path. We are a simple people that just want to scrum it up. Its why so many people are taken by surprise when a light or fast medium swings behind them and lights their six up.

I hate to say it but when you play MMOs and FPSs after a while, you actually realize that game producers design the game based on the absolute bottom threshhold of intelligence because, no matter how smart or tactical you may be, everyone will take the road most traveled. Its why FoTMs exist, why every map in every game has the same combat point, etc. You can't avoid it and god bless the designers that try to cause I know they just face palm themselves later on after the gamers dumb it down.

[Shumabot]

Quote

No, what I said was that PGI designed maps with a centralized combat location but also with smaller minor areas to also fight. Players mostly act like cattle and go in a straight line until they run into the enemy.

Building a house underwater isn't useful because people are never going to live there. Part of good map design is understanding player psychology and habits and PGI apparently knows neither.

Quote

PGI could build extensive and intricate maps to avoid this but people will still congregate to the areas closest to the easiest path. We are a simple people that just want to scrum it up. Its why so many people are taken by surprise when a light or fast medium swings behind them and lights their six up.

I don't think I've ever seen a light or medium take the 45 minutes to swing the 10 miles around alpine to get behind the team and light it up. Probably because that's an impossible nonsense fantasy and these maps don't allow for that. River city is the games densest map and even that has almost no possible way to avoid being spotted 'cleverly flanking'. Also, "lights or mediums lighting people up" lol no. You'll get one alpha before an atlas turns around and disintegrates you, you're there unsupported in the enemies covered position after all.

Quote

I hate to say it but when you play MMOs and FPSs after a while, you actually realize that game producers design the game based on the absolute bottom threshhold of intelligence because, no matter how smart or tactical you may be, everyone will take the road most traveled.

I think I can safely say you neither have training in game design and map design, nor do you have any actually worthwhile opinions to express here. PGI is clearly golden, the games players are bad, that's why everyone just uses the fastest and safest route to the enemy rather than hooking around the long way and losing their base or losing because they moved to an idiotic and indefensible position. Clearly the players just don't know what they're doing and I see that you're really broken up about it.

Edited by Shumabot, 12 April 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Shumabot, on 12 April 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

You just said it was ok that the maps were like that because it's designed for people to congregate in the middle rather than pass eachother and cap, but then you said it's a shame people aren't doing that on alpine because people are "trained" not to do that. Chose whether or not its ok if people do that to you.

Tourmaline is terrible for pathing, the heat maps show people killing and dying in the same two areas in the vast, vast majority of games. Tourmaline is great because it allows for short range and long range teams to both function. It's not like virtually every other PGI map where a map is either a victory for the ranged team or the short team. The only other map like that is frozen city. PGI will never solve the problem of everyone always fighting in the same location in every map because their spawn points and game modes encourage people to always run straight at eachother.

Set a level inside a star league bunker complex, so you can't get bird's eye intel.