19 replies to this topic

[TOGSolid]

NOTICE: This thread is now two months old. I am bumping it seeing as how it's now far more relevant.

One major issue in the game right now is the pintpoint nature of combat. People boat the biggest array of identical weapons possible in order to deliver the highest alpha they can to one area. Players have called for all sorts of crazy solutions to this from redoing how hardpoints work to giving stacking penalties for carrying too many of the same weapon. None of these really make the game better though and really won't solve anything.

However, there is one solution that can be implemented that will add a lot more tactical depth to the game while being a common mechanic in the general fps genre that is easy to understand. That solution is accuracy degredation. The faster you're moving, the faster you're torso twisting, and the hotter you're running the more inaccurate you are. Fully actuated arms suffer from it less while torso mounted weapons get the full effect for hopefully obvious reasons. In general this system could easily be adjusted by chassis so that specific mechs aren't screwed out of their role.

What does this accomplish? Now if you want to deliver a pinpoint shot you need to slow down or even come to a complete stop, allowing your mech to settle before you deliver your massive alpha. However, doing so will skyrocket your heat like it already does making your next shot more inaccurate unless you then wait for your heat to drop. It lets you play a very powerful mech, but one that has to play much more carefully because you will be more vulnerable and you will have to wait longer between shots to deliver your alpha. This has the benefit of making LRMs into a much more effective counter to pinpoint tactics. It also makes arm mounted weapons even more useful giving mechs that rely on them a bit more of a boost over the tankier mechs that rely more on torso mounted weapons. Hell, this could all even apply to jumpjets which will make poptarting instantly a thing of the past.

It's a solution to a growing problem that adds depth to the game without adding obscure rules. It emulates certain TT properties like heat penalties and the more random nature of shots without being absurdly annoying. Anyone who has ever played an FPS before will know what that expanding reticule means and will know what they need to do to get a better shot meaning the game will still be accessible to today's FPS crowd.

Edited by TOGSolid, 25 June 2013 - 01:24 AM.

[MasterErrant]

I agree but a far simpler and more BT fix is to restore convergence to what it should be. these are big high mobility vehicles fireing "Broadsides." not snipers with braced weapons. the other issue is allow high accurace at etreme ranges. with good eyesight you can core mechs that are only a few pixels on the screen

Edited by MasterErrant, 14 April 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Kashaar]

I completely agree and support this suggestion! It would make gameplay a lot more varied, and increase the skill required to pilot "-boats" well, without outright nerfing them. Jumpjets especially should rattle your chassis, and not stabilize it as they do atm.

Pretty much every skill-based FPS has a variant of accuracy degradation, and I think it's a great idea for MWO.

[Capsaicin]

I love this idea. Though shouldn't arms be more penalized from moving since they are suspended from the torso?

Also what about weapon recoil? Right now boating AC2s, there is no recoil penalty and its simple to plink at target far away.

[Bobzilla]

Love the idea, heat penalties being my favorite part. Sniping with dual guass won't be affected tho, which is ok seeing as they are very undesireable.

Im guessing it will be scaled on a mechs top speed, not a general number applyed to a jenner and atlas.

[Ryvucz]

Needs a poll.

[Niyata Raastad]

I also love this idea. It had been mentioned a long while back in closed beta as well.

I'd love it if my mech bobbed and jittered and I had to time the trigger pull to the right moment in the up down movement.

I'd like it to be like TT so it's not how fast you are going in terms of KPH, but how fast you are going relative to you max speed. So if you're 'running' whatever that means for your mech the bopping is particularly noticeable.

[Thunderclese]

That is a grand idea, perhaps modifying the convergence vs. Heat/movement is the way to go. I think the choice between deliberate shot placement vs run and gun would make the pilot weigh the pros and cons of each shot.

[TOGSolid]

Capsaicin, on 12 April 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

I love this idea. Though shouldn't arms be more penalized from moving since they are suspended from the torso?

I guess it could be argued either way. I just figured it'd be nice to give arm mounted weapons a bit more functionality over the fairly prolific nature of all the torso focused weapons.

Bobzilla, on 12 April 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Love the idea, heat penalties being my favorite part. Sniping with dual guass won't be affected tho, which is ok seeing as they are very undesireable.

Im guessing it will be scaled on a mechs top speed, not a general number applyed to a jenner and atlas.

Yeah, it could also give certain mechs more character if there were mechs that were just inherently more stable than others at certain speeds and mechs like the HBK-4P could suffer fewer penalties from running hot. It'd certainly open the game up in a lot of great ways.

[Vassago Rain]

This is a very bad suggestion.

[FrostCollar]

Wait, I just came from a thread with this idea.

I remain opposed to it.

[Capt Cole 117]

An accuracy penalty while using JJs would be enough.

Edited by Capt Cole 117, 14 April 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[MasterErrant]

Capsaicin, on 12 April 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

I love this idea. Though shouldn't arms be more penalized from moving since they are suspended from the torso?

Also what about weapon recoil? Right now boating AC2s, there is no recoil penalty and its simple to plink at target far away.

in TT fully hummanoid arm weapons allow you to look to the side and fire that arm at 90 degrees to you facing...I don't think tha's workable in this game alas especially since the took out moving heads.

[TOGSolid]

Bumping this thread because it's now even more relevant than ever before.

Also:

Capt Cole 117, on 14 April 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

An accuracy penalty while using JJs would be enough.

Is very quote worthy now.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

MasterErrant, on 12 April 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

with good eyesight you can core mechs that are only a few pixels on the screen

actually, funny story. your eyesight is dependent on how well your eye can capture reflected light and put it on the receptors inside your eyeball, obviously this will be done improperly if the eye shape is deformed, but in the case of monitors, distance of objects in the virtual world does not matter so much as your distance from the monitor due to how light travels and blends over distance, and how the light source originates from the 2d surface and not from the objects within. There have been efforts to replicate this with artifical light pollution through depth of field, motion blur, and other post processing techniques, however as there is no way to currently track eye movement, these processes are restricted to treating the player's camera as the eyeball, making these effects not dictated by your eyes, but by your camera controlling device, usually with a mouse or game pad. This is more or less why post processing will give you a headache, as your eyes will constantly try to focus the artificially blurred image whenever you are looking somewhere other than dead center. I'd go as far as to say things like post processing encourage tunnel vision as it will naturally deter you from looking around due to the discomfort.

In other words, post processing can never be natural until games can track where your eyes are looking, and if i wanted to look at a blurry mess of crap I'd take my glasses off.


but back to my main point;

the secret to good long range shots is leaning in or moving the monitor closer, and having a very accurate control device that you are familiar with.

I also find a bizarre amount of good accuracy whenever i play on 800x600 resolution, but that might be because wide screen and large resolutions have always unsettled me.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 25 June 2013 - 12:52 AM.

[Modo44]

TOGSolid, on 12 April 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

The faster you're moving, the faster you're torso twisting, and the hotter you're running the more inaccurate you are. Fully actuated arms suffer from it less while torso mounted weapons get the full effect for hopefully obvious reasons.

Great idea for reducing the usability of lights to nil. Less varied builds and playstyles are exactly what we need.

[TOGSolid]

Modo44, on 25 June 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Great idea for reducing the usability of lights to nil. Less varied builds and playstyles are exactly what we need.

You're thinking a little too in the box here.

The fun part of this system is that it could all easily be adjusted per chassis to emphasize mech roles. I edited the post to make this more clear.

Edited by TOGSolid, 25 June 2013 - 01:25 AM.

[Ghogiel]

I am not opposed to heat penalties like degradation of various mech functions> speed, maneuverability and perhaps some elegant penalty to running at the high end of the heat threshold that impairs accuracy.

[Modo44]

TOGSolid, on 25 June 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

The fun part of this system is that it could all easily be adjusted per chassis to emphasize mech roles. I edited the post to make this more clear.

It is not much of a system if you have to "adjust" everything with exceptions. The basic idea breaks too much.

[Karl Streiger]

Modo44, on 25 June 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

It is not much of a system if you have to "adjust" everything with exceptions. The basic idea breaks too much.

Sorry Sir, do you really believe, that the "cookies" for every one - mentality like it is actual works better?
PPC at 4 sec cool down - hit every one - but the excessiv users less
Gauss explode with 3 HP hit every one - but the K2 less

I really hope they will start to have different rules for every variant of each chassis.

And if you only think 2 secs longer - you reallize that there are allready weight "adjustments" - when you look at the engine rating.