17 replies to this topic

[Skulli Kerensky]

I am new to the game but played the tabletop game since the 80's and read nearly every novel in my younger days, and LOVE everything "Battletech" still.

I wanted to try to build a Mech that my Founder friend tells me is "yesterday's cheese," but I'd really like to make it work for me.

Are missile boats, like the decked out Cata's still even remotely useful as a long range DPS monster? Or is my friend correct in telling me that LRM's and the like are poor choices as the game exists today?

I'm curious to hear from folks who aren't twitch master, naturally born video champs who still may find success with a Mech like this, and pick your brain regarding what works and how best to make that occur.

One of my big worries is once my Cadet bonus expires and I''m still miles away from outfitting a decent long range slayer of men!

I was gonna post this in the new player/help me forums, but since I'm eager to hit the ground running, I also trust opinions here a bit more than the random odd websites Google sends me to. Similar solutions I've found here thus far seem dated and I'm aware that patches and such have happened in between time.



And thanks in advance!

Edited by Skulli Kerensky, 14 April 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Cordel Ordo]

I'm not much for lrms myself but I have seen them used well, and I've seen them do really poorly. I would suggest if you are going solo that you have tag so you can spot and rain death yourself. As I said I don't really use them so this is from what I've seen in games so take with a grain of salt.

[darkfall13]

meh LRMs are pretty weak now, they might need a little bump, my C1 with 2xaLRM20 can put some damage down range, but you aren't going to be making kills, pretty much just have to time it to keep people behind cover or nail them while they're pre-occupied engaging a friendly. Their slow speed is their biggest downside (and bitchin' betty doesn't help as someone that's even remotely paying attention will know you're firing on them even if they can't see it).

+1 on TAG really helps the lone LRM user.

Edited by darkfall13, 14 April 2013 - 01:30 PM.

[Roadbeer]

The short answer is probably the one you don't want to hear.
Now is not a good time to run LRM/SRM 'boats"
http://mwomercs.com/...erver-downtime/

This is a TEMPORARY situation that will hopefully be somewhat resolved on Tuesdays patch, if not, you're looking at May to see a change.

If you're itching to buy a Cat, with your Cadet bonus, right now, I'd go with the C-1. This will allow you to switch between meta's pretty fluidly with minimal equipment costs, and allow you to save up for the K-2, so you're ready for any other meta that rears it's ugly head. After that, go with what you like.

Just some advice from your Old Uncle Roadbeer.

Edited by Roadbeer, 14 April 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Currently missiles are a bit under powered. They are operating under conditions established by a hot fix that drastically reduced base damage, reworked splash damage mechanics a bit, and significantly reduced the splash radius.

From what I can remember, LRMs and Streaks are back to preferentially targeting the center torso, which is bad. All missiles were doing super high amounts of damage all over any mech they hit due to bugged splash damage. The hot fix is a strictly temporary measure designed to make those weapon systems still useable without letting people abuse the current mechanics by having absurdly high numbers.

As things stand, then, Streaks are now mostly useless except against enemy light mechs. Standard SRMs still hit pretty hard, but no longer are the absolute kings of brawling (though they're still very effective if you can hit with them). LRMs are pretty weak right now, and I don't recommend building around them. Bring some significant backup weapons if you can. Plus, ECM makes them just that little bit harder to use well (and basically requires you to spend an energy hard point on a TAG if you want to use them reliably).

TLDR: LRMs are weak right now due to a hot fix designed to mitigate some missile damage/behavior bugs. Take some as backup weapons, but don't go full LRM unless you're good with a TAG and want to mess around with them just for fun.

[GODzillaGSPB]

LRM-damage lately went through three stages:

First it was okay. You had to watch for cover and when in the open took some heavy hits that killed you, if you took a few more. People used LRMs to a good, but not overwhelming amount.

Then it was bugged. One-hit-kills with a salvo were a regular sight. Players flocked to using LRMs. Despite the knowledge of it being a bug quickly spread they were yet eager to exploit it has much as possible. I'd say typical human behaviour but whatever.

So, naturally, PGI nerfed them and pretty hard, too. From 1.8 damage per missile to 0.7 damage. As is also typical human behaviours people were quick to declare them useless, broken and worthless.


My latest experience is this: They are hardly ever used currently, but when used can surprise and supress the enemy quite effectively. Mediums and heavies with xl even fall to them quite regularly. Entering the game with an LRM-heavy build now can lend you some surprising success. But it can also take the other route and get you killed quite easily, because the regress of LRMs meant the rise of lights (to which, at least in the open, LRMs posed an obvious threat). There are more lights in the game then ever before. 3, 4 sometimes even 5 lights (per team!!!) in a match are not as rare as one might believe, or wish. And when there's one natural foe to the missile boat it's most likely the quick light.

In the end it is up to you to find out if it works for you.

Edited by GODzillaGSPB, 14 April 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[Skulli Kerensky]

Thanks guys....so if I as a lone wolf, wanted to lay down respectable long range damage, and not spend over say, 11 million in currency, is there a way to do this but not get one-shotted by a well tossed head of cabbage?

Oh and another totally opposite query, lol:

In WoW PvP (if you can call it that), I enjoyed being a pit fighting Brawler, but I kinda ruled that out when my friend of over 1200 matches informed me that NO Mech is really designed to play like a plate-armored fury warrior, but I've heard differing thoughts on this...to me that would be the IDEAL way for me to play if it were truly viable...polar opposites, i admit!

Edited by Skulli Kerensky, 14 April 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[Roadbeer]

1. Cat K2 with PPC. or Jagermech with Gauss

2. Cat K2 or Jagermech with AC20. Atlas DDC fits the bill kinda nicely, but I think that's a bit beyond your skill level at this point.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

If you have a C1 catapult, you can build a respectable jump sniper. Put a pair of ERPPCs on the sides and a LPL in the center torso and have fun.

The K2 can do similar things, but without the jump jets. I'm currently running ERPPCs on the arms and a LL on each side torso.

As for brawlers, you've got all kinds of options. For speed you want a heavy or a medium, preferably with lasers and missiles (SRMs). Though SRM brawlers are a bit weak right now (due to the hot fix), they're not useless. The Hunchback 4SP has great hard point arrangements and can really pack a punch for its weight (2 SRM6s and 4 ML is a common build, and is very nearly stock). There's a Centurion with 3 missile hard points that can get triple SRM6s and some laser secondaries, plus the Trebuchet has a few decent SRM/laser builds.

For sheer firepower and survivability, though, you mostly want Stalkers and Atlases. You can go with laser boats or mixed SRM/laser builds for both, and the Atlas can do AC20s as well. The D-DC is popular with ECM, super heavy armor, 3 SRM6s, AC20, and lasers (though I've recently switched out my AC20 for Artemis IV on the missiles and upgrading my lasers to LPL). I also run Stalkers with 4 LPL and 4 SRM6/2 ERLL (which used to have 6 ML but it ran too hot and was hard to use on Alpine).

Brawling is not dead, it just requires a bit more thought in your use of terrain.

[Champion of Khorne]

What are your thoughts on the HBK with the 5 lasers as a brawler, getting 2x sinks and using all those med lasers to allow me to strafe lights as well as blast heavys?

Edited by Champion of Khorne, 14 April 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Noobzorz]

LRMs were far from ok before the LRMpocalypse. It made games a question of who had more ECM and LRMs. The LRMpocalypse just took it to new heights.

I think LRMs need a speed boost that scales with range so you can use them to scare snipers into being honest, but they absolutely do not need to go back to anything like 1.7 damage per missile.

[Skyfaller]

Devs haven't said anything about the current massive LRM nerf.


Thing is, I LIKE the damage they do now but I dont like the fact that the LRM as a long range support weapon is useless because they lowered damage so much without giving more ammo per ton.

Just now in my 4-LRM15 with artemis stalker... with 1080 missiles (5 tons) ammo...


I fired them all from a high vantage point at targets less than 600m away and ALL MISSILES hit. TAG was permanently on the targets.

All 5 tons were fired at just 2 mechs. A stalker and a cataphract.

These mechs suffered medium to heavy damage to their armor.

...which is good for a support missile weapon... but STUPID because I had to burn 5 tons of ammo just to heavily damage them.

I think the devs need to double the ammo per ton to compensate for the 50% damage reduction the LRMs suffered.

...and make TAG grant a 25% damage bonus to LRMs.

[Koniving]

Skulli Kerensky, on 14 April 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I am new to the game but played the tabletop game since the 80's and read nearly every novel in my younger days, and LOVE everything "Battletech" still.

I wanted to try to build a Mech that my Founder friend tells me is "yesterday's cheese," but I'd really like to make it work for me.

Are missile boats, like the decked out Cata's still even remotely useful as a long range DPS monster? Or is my friend correct in telling me that LRM's and the like are poor choices as the game exists today?

Missiles in general will get a complete overhaul and new splash damage model in a month or two. In the meantime, missiles are currently "nerfed" due to the fact that they were and still are producing up to 3 times their stated damage. You will find that SRMs will be most effective on small, skinny mechs where the splash will affect more body parts at once.

Your LRMs are best fired at slow moving assaults. However I would not advise "boating" them. While devastating in the past, they are nerfed to an insane point to make the community happy in regards to previous missile spamming. You will find that few enemies are using AMS (anti missile system) and thus it may be easy to get some kills or a fair amount of damage. However, to "boat" them is not a good idea. Missile boats become helpless at close range, and are notoriously slow. With the current state of the game being a high emphasis on ballistic weapons, you are not likely to find escorts to protect you. Therefore, perhaps invest little more than LRM-5s or LRM-10s to get some fast damage in at range, while keeping good enough agility and firepower to defend yourself up close.

TL;DR
LRM boating? Bad idea. But bringing LRMs in small amounts is a good idea. Wait until a patch involving missile fixes before boating them.

-----

Missiles are great ways to suppress enemies to keep them from rushing. But people cry when you kill them for standing out in the open. They cry when you play your role. Heck, they even cry when they are winning because their own weapons aren't powerful enough.


But should you use missiles, play a support role, and get creative in where you stand -- oh the tears!

We must nerf ze missiles! No one gets to play their role. Missiles launchers must have nerf-tipped darts and be outdone by machine guns. OMG! O_O!


....Welp. I'm sorry, Catapult. But it looks like you're going back to the garage.

(Catapults piloted by Koniving. Screenshots taken by Lordred.)

Edited by Koniving, 14 April 2013 - 07:48 PM.

[Burnsidhe]

I have a Catapult, a C1.

Currently, it's got two LRM-10's and twin ERPPCs.

I don't have a good record with it, but on maps where I'm actually able to fill the role of fire support/sniper, it's a decent 'mech.

[Spectre250]

If you are still looking for an LRM heavy build, I might recommend trying a Stalker 5M, loading it with 5 MLs and then distribute the rest of its tonnage between LRM launchers, ammo, and DHS as you prefer. You will still retain enough missiles to be dangerous at range, and the lasers give you a solid punch inside of 300m in case brawlers or lights close on you. You are going to be a little slow with this design concept, but should still be fairly effective.

[JC Daxion]

I'm new to this game, But i have seen them used effectivly against me.. I think they need good team work to use. The gauss rifle is an excelent alternative for sniping. give that dragon trial mech a try to see how you like it.

[Koniving]

That's exactly the issue, Daxion. They are no longer receiving teamwork support because everyone is under the impression that their weakened state is not worth their time.
Videos below.

Spoiler

8 vs 8 when it was highly competitive. I'm in a Missile boat. Not my favorite role, but necessary at times.


Hunchback 4J converted to a missile boat. Three LRM boat, one scout team.


Missile boat Hunchback 4J under close range attack.


Dedicated LRM boat. Zhizhu versus Skye Rangers 10th Regiment. Here, the LRM boat comes under attack behind the front lines. Help doesn't come in time. Still, the LRM boat continues to provide support on called targets even while under attack until the very end.


The current melancholy of the LRM boat. Note that this hunchback had been harassing me for a total of 6 minutes and 39 seconds. No one on the team helped at any point, despite multiple voice and chat requests.


In this game, one or two LRM mechs completely outclass all of the brawler builds on my team, so when we finally do get close enough to actually fight we are completely levelled.

[Phoenix Gray]

Skyfaller, on 14 April 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Devs haven't said anything about the current massive LRM nerf.


Thing is, I LIKE the damage they do now but I dont like the fact that the LRM as a long range support weapon is useless because they lowered damage so much without giving more ammo per ton.

Just now in my 4-LRM15 with artemis stalker... with 1080 missiles (5 tons) ammo...


I fired them all from a high vantage point at targets less than 600m away and ALL MISSILES hit. TAG was permanently on the targets.

All 5 tons were fired at just 2 mechs. A stalker and a cataphract.

These mechs suffered medium to heavy damage to their armor.

...which is good for a support missile weapon... but STUPID because I had to burn 5 tons of ammo just to heavily damage them.

I think the devs need to double the ammo per ton to compensate for the 50% damage reduction the LRMs suffered.

...and make TAG grant a 25% damage bonus to LRMs.

Sounds like you need some MG's for effective backup.