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Making Melee Weapons Viable.


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#1 Blackfire1

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:19 PM

Broken horse? Hell yes it is. But you know what? Its fun to think about. How would we make Melee weapons viable in MWO?
The devs already mentioned that they will be implemented some day. I'd like to discuss how the community would like them handled. Similar to the community think tanks back in early early beta.

My reasoning?
I want to be able to charge an atlas in a hunchback 2SP wielding dual axes and small lasers. If I could put on jump jets I would be in heaven. Yes, I know Dual weapons isn't something you can use at the same time in Battletech. But damn it one of those are going to be blow up mid charge.
However I digress. So the question stands
"How will it be implemented?"

Melee combat has been a part of Battletech since its iteration. It is only until the last couple years that we've had the technology to be able to implement it in a feasible first person mode. 3rd person as we've know from brawlers has been around for awhile.
From what I've seen over the years there are 3 main ideas to look at this with.

Direction
A: One button actions (ex. knife is Battlefield/Ps2/Battle Tech Universe)
B: Direction control: Action button held down and the mouse is moved in a specific direction or pattern. (War of the Roses/)
C: Direction Buttons: One button for different melee attacks based on direction and power.(Age of Chivalry)

Power: How much effort you put into it. (Punch vs Jab)
-Charge and hold (Skyrim, War of the roses, Chivalry)
-Guaranteed amount (Battlefield/Ps2/Cod/ BTU)

What about Skyrim?
Skyrim is a hybrid directional control and Button. You only use one button to attack but your characters movement controls direction. Not the best thing when driving a bipedal tank.

One Button Actions:
These are going to be your general one keystroke per action style of game play.
This is fine and dandy if there are only one to two hitboxes. However once you segment the hit boxes ie Mechwarrior it starts to lose its tactile feel. While this would be the easiest to implement it doesn't help immerse the player.

Video example of one button action: About the :54 mark
http://youtu.be/rk1XKuhFqao

Directional Contol:
This is the style of combat used in War of the Rose and to a lesser degree skyrim.
WoTR you hold down the mouse and move it up, down, left or right to attack from those directions. Holding down the mouse button to charge the power.

This I could see working in MWO by having an action key that is held down activating melee mode and the mouse being used to "charge up" the swing via the direction you pull it back by.
This however would have to lock the cockpit and the torso to a lesser degree. I could see this being used similarly to the arm reticle except your not moving the entire mouse in the motion. Just picking directions and charging.

Example movie:


Directional Button:
This is what I've seen in games like Chivalry.
Each direction has its own specific button and the longer you hold that key down the stronger the strike. Chivalry uses mouse wheel up & down and the left and right mouse click. Obviously this would cause problems with MWO's combat system. However assigning specific keys would come in handy in the middle of combat.

Video example

Edited by Blackfire1, 14 April 2013 - 09:39 PM.


#2 Praslek2

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:41 PM

This is a great way for PIG to continue their monetization strategy..
Every time you swing your melee weapon--fist, axe, sword, etc--you must pay 15MC.

#3 Blackfire1

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostPraslek2, on 14 April 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

This is a great way for PIG to continue their monetization strategy..
Every time you swing your melee weapon--fist, axe, sword, etc--you must pay 15MC.

THats not being constructive.

#4 hammerreborn

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:46 PM

They already said they want to implement melee in the future, but first they need to fix the hitcode and get collision working correctly before they go off on other related mech ramming into mech features

#5 Dwight Derringer

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:47 PM

Melee would be good if it were a terrible combat option.

Like the knife in counterstrike - not call of duty.

A last resort, emergency "oh ****!" option. OR a humiliation.

#6 xenoglyph

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:49 PM

I just want a +1 vorpal hatchet that goes snicker-snack

#7 xenoglyph

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:35 PM

View PostDwight Derringer, on 14 April 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Melee would be good if it were a terrible combat option.

Like the knife in counterstrike - not call of duty.

A last resort, emergency "oh ****!" option. OR a humiliation.


So you want them to be like machine guns then?

#8 Blackfire1

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 09:43 PM

Here is the thing. Melee has always had its place in the Battletech universe. The devs said they were going to add it in some day. This was back in very early beta like I said.

There are Many times that I'm within arms reach of another mech. Thats how it is, melee is a very devastating point blank option if something gets too close. It is not supposed to be the main damage source.
However I would find the idea to being able to pick up arms or swing a raven around by the leg to be a funny one.

If I'm going to strike something in melee in this game of segmented armor. I want to be able to roughly aim the region I'm going for. If I'm at the back of something I want to be able to aim for the right arm/torso, center, and left arm/torso with a general ability to hit one or more locations. Its a swing not a stab.

#9 jakucha

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostDwight Derringer, on 14 April 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Melee would be good if it were a terrible combat option.

Like the knife in counterstrike - not call of duty.

A last resort, emergency "oh ****!" option. OR a humiliation.


I disagree. Melee is supposed to be a really effective way to injure another mech. If we have fall-over collision in with melee it will balance it out.

Edited by jakucha, 14 April 2013 - 10:01 PM.


#10 MacKoga

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:12 PM

Melee is my favorite flavor of koolaid.

I'd love to see it, but only if implemented well, and after fixing collision physics / stopping rubberbanding and walkthroughs, then DFA attacks with likely knockdown effects, then general knockdown effects. And probably after fixing the critical system so that damaged gyros and limb actuators properly impair mechs and interfer with movement, aiming, and especially melee.

All that should happen sooner rather than later, regardless of when melee might get looked at.

#11 The Cheese

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:17 PM

The trollmando would make a huge comeback with this.

Imagine it; they run up behind you, punch you in the back of the knee, jam a salvo of streaks into your CT, then giggle like excited schoolgirls as they run off behind a building before you can turn around.

Better yet, you get a group of 4 (more is better) and just run around and punch things in the legs until they fall down. Like a premade of 3Ls, except with benny hill music.

Edited by The Cheese, 14 April 2013 - 10:18 PM.






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