22 replies to this topic

[Cerlin]

I have looked around the forums for coverage of this issue and I have only seen the hinting at it in posts about the mechlab. Basically my idea is that the player should be "rewarded" for driving the standard "stock fits" of mechs in the way that they are MUCH cheaper to maintain and repair compared to custom mechs. The closer the mech is to the original build, the cheaper it is (for example, just upgrading one laser shouldnt hurt the cost too much.) But for those players who take a basic IS mech (say a Jenner), give it an XL Engine, double heat syncs, a full rack of 8 medium ER lasers, and other bling, will have to pay a much larger price when it comes to reps after a battle. This will both make editing mechs an option but a more costly one, and also give people a reason to pilot stock mechs.

There have already been some steps metioned by the devs to attemped to fight excessive boating, and attempting to keep mechs in their roles, but specifics are still thin. Therefore this is my vote adding to the fact that I hope battle and mech balance will be an issue that is addressed from the start of the game. I do not want to prohibit people from having 4 guass rifle assaults or whatever crazy mechs they want to drive (well maybe a do a little bit,) but I want it to cost to make a mech SO out of the normal pattern. In the time before the omni-mech, modding mechs was a seriously expensive process, and I hope that is somewhat reflected here.

Thoughts all? This is not set in stone, but it is the "suggestion" thread and this was one of the ideas that I thought may help balance the game and make min/maxing not always so desireable.

[AlanEsh]

That's a pretty damn splendid idea.
However, if there are significant advantages to the boated up mechs, they're going to make more money in fights simply for their increased ability to kick standard mech butts. So yeah, the cost for running a heavily modded mech would need to be pretty steep to make up for that.

Edited by Angelicon, 04 June 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[ManDaisy]

I like this. Although I'd support more of a stock mechs receive a discount to repair (due to standard procedures, no special operations, being streamlined, etc) rather then custom mechs pay extra for repairs. The main cost in a custom mech is actually customizing a mech. That should be where the burden of cost lie in a custom mech. So the first time customizing a mech cost should be higher, but then repair and maintenance should then be the same generally after that. I'd prefer if repair cost followed a standardized system that applies to both customs and stocks for cost, and then to give the stock variant a discount.

Edited by ManDaisy, 04 June 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[Chacatumbi]

Cerlin, on 04 June 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

I have looked around the forums for coverage of this issue and I have only seen the hinting at it in posts about the mechlab. Basically my idea is that the player should be "rewarded" for driving the standard "stock fits" of mechs in the way that they are MUCH cheaper to maintain and repair compared to custom mechs. The closer the mech is to the original build, the cheaper it is (for example, just upgrading one laser shouldnt hurt the cost too much.) But for those players who take a basic IS mech (say a Jenner), give it an XL Engine, double heat syncs, a full rack of 8 medium ER lasers, and other bling, will have to pay a much larger price when it comes to reps after a battle. This will both make editing mechs an option but a more costly one, and also give people a reason to pilot stock mechs.

There have already been some steps metioned by the devs to attemped to fight excessive boating, and attempting to keep mechs in their roles, but specifics are still thin. Therefore this is my vote adding to the fact that I hope battle and mech balance will be an issue that is addressed from the start of the game. I do not want to prohibit people from having 4 guass rifle assaults or whatever crazy mechs they want to drive (well maybe a do a little bit,) but I want it to cost to make a mech SO out of the normal pattern. In the time before the omni-mech, modding mechs was a seriously expensive process, and I hope that is somewhat reflected here.

Thoughts all? This is not set in stone, but it is the "suggestion" thread and this was one of the ideas that I thought may help balance the game and make min/maxing not always so desireable.

Thats the worst idea i have ever heard. If you dont like the idea of customizing mechs go play mechassault on Xbox. And if your argument is such because you instead like money sinks in games... or maybe even like the idea of rewarding casual gamers that can't get enough cbills to make decents outfitting, then you must just be nutso. B/c thats what you are saying... lets screw over people that take the time customize their mech. They will already have payed enough cbills for the equipment itself.

[ManDaisy]

The same incentive can be reached if a discount for stock mechs rather then a penalty for customs is applied.

[That Guy]

+1! there needs to be some incentive for player to not customize their mechs. and i am going to keep saying it, but there also needs to be costs associated with customizing beyond equipment. cost vs benefit. what do you do, take a stock mech and make more cash, or take a pimped out mech that you loose money on if you get destroyed or loose a match?

additionally to not hurt noobies, starter mechs could do the WOT thing by getting free repairs and (in this case) free customization. that way, even terrible player can stay in the game

Quote

Thats the worst idea i have ever heard. If you dont like the idea of customizing mechs go play mechassault on Xbox. And if your argument is such because you instead like money sinks in games... or maybe even like the idea of rewarding casual gamers that can't get enough cbills to make decents outfitting, then you must just be nutso. B/c thats what you are saying... lets screw over people that take the time customize their mech. They will already have payed enough cbills for the equipment itself.

[Cerlin]

Chacatumbi, on 04 June 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Thats the worst idea i have ever heard. If you dont like the idea of customizing mechs go play mechassault on Xbox. And if your argument is such because you instead like money sinks in games... or maybe even like the idea of rewarding casual gamers that can't get enough cbills to make decents outfitting, then you must just be nutso. B/c thats what you are saying... lets screw over people that take the time customize their mech. They will already have payed enough cbills for the equipment itself.

No it is not that I do not like customizing mechs, I enjoy it! I just think the cost should be built into the model of the game enough to make a real difference income wise, so when you are rolling your mechs you honestly need to consider, "Do I take the standard hunchback? Or risk having to pay for my special version?" It is in the end up to player skill, you are that awesome with your custom mech and will make all the money back it is irrelevant, but for some people who are still learning it would be a major consideration. But it would also make "Stock" variants more of a low cost/high profit option.

And as to your argument for "money sinks"I very much feel that games with pvp economics seriously need drains on players income, or there is no real value to currency. You are talking to someone who plays eve online, when you die, you lose your ship and a random half of what you had equipped disappears (normally the expensive half.) I am not saying that MWO should have that system but yes there needs to be economic cost to losing a very expensive, heavily modified mech. Especially in Pre-omni-mech times.

Also there is no reason that the casual players shouldnt have a low cost option, they are part of the community too.

Edited by Cerlin, 04 June 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[AlanEsh]

Chacatumbi, on 04 June 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Thats the worst idea i have ever heard. If you dont like the idea of customizing mechs go play mechassault on Xbox. And if your argument is such because you instead like money sinks in games... or maybe even like the idea of rewarding casual gamers that can't get enough cbills to make decents outfitting, then you must just be nutso. B/c thats what you are saying... lets screw over people that take the time customize their mech. They will already have payed enough cbills for the equipment itself.

Soooooo.... how much do you think 12xSmall Lasers is going to cost anyway?

[Roland]

Not a bad idea.

Might add a bit of extra incentive to drive some less than optimal configs, beyond the self imposed challenge of it.

[CookieMonster]

seems to me that if PGI is sticking to the cannon as much as possible, they'd limit the ability to 'boat' beyond some point..like maybe only x number of y weapon being available TO mount. Not talking about hardpoints, but not physically able to load that 5th or 7th medium laser or somesuchthing..even if you've got the space/weight/hardpoint FOR that weapon.

They must have already thought about it to SOME extent as they are pushing out individual mechs to us and not just 'selling' us a light/med/heavy/assault chasis that we can then tweak to our hearts content.

[Rodney28021]

Sounds like a good idea, if the devs put it in. This idea following in the footsteps of the GM separating the player from his money if he has too much and wanting too much. It would help stretch your money budget if you are trying to save up for that hot new tech mech in the future. I can see right now there are people going to be whining in chat about not having enough money for what they want. MWO needs to be selling caches of c-bills for those lazy rich players out there.

Edited by Rodney28021, 05 June 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[canned wolf]

Chacatumbi, on 04 June 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Thats the worst idea i have ever heard. If you dont like the idea of customizing mechs go play mechassault on Xbox. And if your argument is such because you instead like money sinks in games... or maybe even like the idea of rewarding casual gamers that can't get enough cbills to make decents outfitting, then you must just be nutso. B/c thats what you are saying... lets screw over people that take the time customize their mech. They will already have payed enough cbills for the equipment itself.

Before comming in and flaming a person for having an idea, maybe we should play something other than MW4?

What he's suggesting is how it is in a bunch of the canon. I actually dealt with this on an old truck I owned that a previous owner had done an engine swap on. The problem was that model never had that engine, so when I took it to a mechanic, thier tech manuals were useless for most of what was in the engine compartment. They had to dig up manuals that had that engine, then figure out new procedures to deal with how it was mounted in my truck.

A battlemech is not a truck. Customizations can be done well or poorly. Even a poor customization may work perfectly until its time to do maintenence on it.

"This wire bundle controls the PPC... except there is no PPC anymore, its an AC/5, and you can't use a PPC controler for an AC/5. Why didn't the previous tech pull this? OH! to fit the ammo feed mech he had to reroute power to the upper arm actuators."

Look at the wiring in a hundred year old house, then tell me customization doesn't make repairs harder.

[Phaid Knott]

Yes from me, like the idea

[Revage]

I like the idea of discount repairs for stock mechs, gives a boost to folks that aren't yet experienced enough to know a good custom loadout, good for noobs or traditionalists. Don't like the idea of penalizing customs, though.

[Cerlin]

Thanks for all the feedback all! Bar one post it has been really constructive.

Revage, on 05 June 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I like the idea of discount repairs for stock mechs, gives a boost to folks that aren't yet experienced enough to know a good custom loadout, good for noobs or traditionalists. Don't like the idea of penalizing customs, though.

Ah see that is the point, any cost difference is a "boost/penalty" depending on your interpretation. Cheaper stock mechs OR more expensive custom mechs has the same impact, just with different names. For balance sake, and canon, and logic I think most people can agree to some cost difference, especially when dealing with repairs. But since most of us are not playing yet I do not think we can make specific comments on degree. We do not know how much money you make in one mission verses how much it costs to fix a mech. Until we know that, we can mostly just talk about the general principal, but not specifics.

Edited by Cerlin, 05 June 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Chacatumbi]

First, I wasnt trying to flame and i apologize if i came accross too "flamy". Ok, to help out noobs or people that dont want to mod, i see no problem with making repairs cheap for their noob cannon starter mech (however they do it) and/or until a certain pilot level. But no, the idea of penalizing people for modding more is silly. Repairs should simply be something like:

a set across the board % of the cost of the weapon/armor/engine times the dmg. I would suggest the "dmg" would be a set number such as .1 for mild dmg all the way to like 1 if the part is detroyed. I would also cap the repair cost to like 10% of total mech cost per total repair(everything destroyed) or something of the like. It makes sense an assault mech with tons of weapons would be more costly to repair.

Edited by Chacatumbi, 05 June 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[Chacatumbi]

Hopefully that was constructive enough, lol. But really, I hate money sinks especially right now that I'm playing a certain game with a 15% off the top every single time you do any auction house transaction... it's diabolic IMO...

[Revage]

Cerlin, on 05 June 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Ah see that is the point, any cost difference is a "boost/penalty" depending on your interpretation.

Granted that terminology is often subjective, however, we are talking about customization of mechs. Customization is, by definition, a deviation from the norm; however, we can be reasonably sure that the majority of mechs will be customized to a greater or lesser degree once players have been in the game a few days. I haven't known a mech player that leaves their mech completely stock. Thus, the norm is actually to be customized. I believe that prices should be set relative to the norm, i.e., the price for repairing a mech would be a set value for repairing a customized mech. I would also recommend that value be standardized, regardless of the degree of customization. For stock mechs, however, I would suggest a discount to the cost of repairs, and it would be a discount because the base value of a repair is the cost of repairing a customized mech in the scenario I am suggesting. The entirety of my proposition is meant to suggest a modest fee for repairs that does not grow simply because you have a preferred layout for your mech that differs from the stock model, and that persons fielding stock mechs be given a break on their repair costs for keeping things simple and likely being inexperienced at the game. The over-all desired suggestion is that repair costs always be kept modest, and yet even more affordable for the un-customized mechs which are likely in the hands of the newest players.

I hope that clears up the subjectivity of the terms for you.

[Anixantheas]

This idea makes perfect sense from an IS standpoint.

Think of it in terms of today's cars. If you have a stock Buick (anything) the replacement parts are easy and "cheap" to find. On the other hand the more you were to trick out that car, and all the extra wiring, components and ect that is needed, well now you've potentially added far more cost than a basic design.

Now add in replacing those new fangled double heat sinks, thanks to the non-modular nature of IS construction, you may need the 800XLT Mitsubishi series rather than the 800YLT series, and whoa boy do they cost more, no really, just ask the manufacturer.

[canned wolf]

You could also have it got he other direction. Some stock builds are a pain in the *** to maintain and they get field modded to make them easier to deal with.

This all depends on a whole bunch of factors. If match scoring includes a category for how many c-bills worth of damage you did to the other team, I could see this working pretty well.