82 replies to this topic

[Atheus]

Please change "Assault" mode so that team bases are immune to capture for the first 5-6 minutes of a round. I'm sick and tired of playing round after round where some light mech(s) spoils the fun for everyone by racing to the enemy base to cap right off the bat - especially on maps where the bases are literally 5 km apart. I've been in too many matches tonight where members of both teams will literally walk around each other and just try to cap the win without even firing a shot. This is utterly unfulfilling and devoid of fun for a huge majority of the player base.

Sure, having 8 mechs just plow into each other head on every match is a bit repetitive and there should be tactics involved, but capwarrior involves an annoying amount of just running around to deal with annoying crap that's happening at distant locations.

Edit 5/10/2013:
Added second question, and the option to abstain.

Edited by Atheus, 10 May 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[Arcaist]

well, you gotta guard the base then....

and besides, wait till 12 vs 12 arrives. things will change then...

[Vincinzerey]

There is more involved in this game than blast the crap out of the other mach.. there are times where you just have to think what you could do to win. If the entire group leave the base unguarded and 2 light mechs can cap without interruption.. they deserve to win.

about the 12 vs 12.. will be interesting how this will "end" on the smaller maps like frozen city

[Drakonsosuke]

And you can buy air strikes to retaliate light cappers...

[Robo_D]

Don't agree with the whine-fest over capping(defend or at least don't commit to that far across the map that early without fast movers still alive)... but wouldn't object to a 3min delay, most games don't last near 5mins.

Edited by Rotorymaniac, 16 April 2013 - 02:39 AM.

[Footupyzz]

you said it yourself....USE TACTIC'S....so don't run off with ya group. Your own fault that you get capped.

so my vote: NO

[Bobzilla]

Haven't you guys played matches where both sides just circle each other and end at the other base? That's not really fun or tactical.

Have you piloted a slow mech in a pug and your choices are, stay with the base and die alone and/or not play by stitting there or go with the team? Seems tactically you'd want to work with your team.


So tatics don't help if your the only one doing it. Unless your piloting a light, which in most cases just puts you far from your team in a bad spot. You can even take the time to stop shooting and dodgeing shots to take the time to type in that someone should head to the base, even tho there is a big warning all those players can see, and the faster mechs usually will do nothing about it anyways.

So in conclution, your 'tatics' to solve this is every pug just sit on their base all match. Problem with that is, noone would fight and the timmer would just run out. "But if they are just sitting on their base, why not attack?" Cause you leave your base open or leave a player behind causeing a 8v7 senario where the 7 is attacking defenders.

This clearly isn't a problem with premades using voip as you can communicate and assign roles easy, put pugging is a different story.

I voted no because i think the timmer isn't a solution as capping is a great tactic for distraction, or causing chaos or pulling out of a lopsided win. However I feel that in assult it should take longer, the more mechs are left on your team. If your the last on your team, it should go faster. If you have a full team it should go much slower.

[Donas]

Bobzilla, on 16 April 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

If your the last on your team, it should go faster. If you have a full team it should go much slower.

Now THIS is a great idea. By far the best solution I've seen yet.

Scaling speed. Have it scale both by number of mechs actually performing the cap, and by number of remaining mechs. Great Idea.

+1 Sir.

[HammerSwarm]

please learn to play defense, co-ordinate with other players, and to play game modes instead of just pretending you are in solaris.

[Prezimonto]

I said no. I think the cap time should scale with the distance between the two spawn points/distance involved with side routes that are commonly traveled.

What's not fun is that on some large maps it's game losing to split your team and half your team can't get back to the cap in time to do anything.

I also like the idea that the cap time should scale with number of your team's mechs that are left.

I also like the idea that the cap time should scale relative to the tonnage you have on the point.

I'd like to have those two ideas offset each other.

Edited by Prezimonto, 16 April 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[Darling_In_The_MeXX]

It is a tactical option in the game to capture a base down to a few more seconds to win then battle it out. It gives the option to run and capture if your team is down 5 to 1.

[Jeff K Notagoon]

Donas, on 16 April 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Now THIS is a great idea. By far the best solution I've seen yet.

Scaling speed. Have it scale both by number of mechs actually performing the cap, and by number of remaining mechs. Great Idea.

+1 Sir.

No that is a terrible idea. It doesn't even make sense, how would the enemy base know how many mechs are left, and why would it get weaker because of it? Why don't we just have your damage increase every time a teammate dies too?

[HarmAssassin]

The reason they put capping into Assault mode was in case one mech goes and hides, that there is still a way for the opposing team to win. But instead what has happened, is light mechs wait until the enemy team has walked so far from their base that they can't return in time, then 2 light mechs with capture accelerator swoop in to cap... all within the first 3 minutes of the game.

Leaving defenders at the base is not an option, as that means the rest of your team (now short handed) must fight the enemy team at full strength.

I'd like to see capping disabled until 10 minutes have passed. If you can't kill the enemy team in 10 minutes, then you can cap.

[Bobzilla]

Jeff K Notagoon, on 16 April 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

No that is a terrible idea. It doesn't even make sense, how would the enemy base know how many mechs are left, and why would it get weaker because of it? Why don't we just have your damage increase every time a teammate dies too?

An easy answer would be, it would know because it shows right at the top of the screen along with how much the base is capped.
It makes no sense that either side would even know how many mechs are around or if there are any. Or maybe why this pice of equipment is left so close to your enemies equipment and why is it indestructable? Also what is it even doing? Why after this pice of equipment is captured does my mech freeze and im kicked off the planet?

Silly silly questions, lets not ask them.

[Donas]

Jeff K Notagoon, on 16 April 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

No that is a terrible idea. It doesn't even make sense, how would the enemy base know how many mechs are left, and why would it get weaker because of it?

Easy, if its early in the match and its capping quickly, you know there are multiple mechs. If its late in the match and your team has beaten the other team up, you know you have to watch for it. Note that at no point am I endorsing the idea of accelerated cap speed beyond what it is now. I want capping be slower.

The scaling capping speed would make a single light mech less effective at cap-rushing at the beginning of a match. if they sent 2 or three mechs right out of the gates to bring the cap speed up to what it is currently for a single mech? Now you A. know where at least 2 or more of their team is and B. know that the rest of their team is going to be handily outnumbered.

You now have to make a decision, back to base to deal with the threat, split up, hope to wipe out the rest of their team and THEN get back to stop the cap, all sortsa stuff.

Waiting ten minutes before capping can start? I think this would make capping even MORE frustrating for the ones who are frustrated by it now, since they'll be fighting this long dramatic match only to have the jenner they never could find power up and cap, or have the whole fight for nothing when it develops someplace far away from their base and a light bails and takes off at the nine minute mark and its too late.

I think having the cap speed be slower at the beginning of a match, and gradually increasing over time (say ten minutes) to normal though is a great idea, and one that would be welcomed by anyone currently frustrated by base rushers now.

My first, best suggestion to combat capping? A match mode with NO capping, but thats not the discussion the OP started.

[Donas]

HarmAssassin, on 16 April 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

a. light mechs wait until the enemy team has walked so far from their base that they can't return in time,

b. all within the first 3 minutes of the game.

c. Leaving defenders at the base is not an option, as that means the rest of your team (now short handed) must fight the enemy team at full strength.

a. and b. Making capture speeds slower at the beginning of the match would help with this a lot.
c. There's no need to leave them stranded at the base. they just need to be close enough that they can respond move back and forth between responding to cappers and assisting their teammates. If that buffer area doesn't exist or is too large to be workable, like in the situation you described in a., the rest of their teammates have committed a tactical error and over-extended.

There's a big difference between playing defense and playing goalie. The folks in this thread are asking people to play defense.

Edited by Donas, 16 April 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[Bobzilla]

Donas, on 16 April 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

a. and b. Making capture speeds slower at the beginning of the match would help with this a lot.
c. There's no need to leave them stranded at the base. they just need to be close enough that they can respond move back and forth between responding to cappers and assisting their teammates. If that buffer area doesn't exist or is too large to be workable, like in the situation you described in a., the rest of their teammates have committed a tactical error and over-extended.

There's a big difference between playing defense and playing goalie. The folks in this thread are asking people to play defense.

This is totally true and valid.

Typing this into chat with a bunch of puggers not listening to you is also what they are asking.

[Donas]

Yep. And I find that the easiest way to get positive results from chat-posts in a PuG is to be polite. If someone posts "Donas, can you support me here" or "Donas, please keep eyes on F3" I will always answer "Roger that" and repeat their request. I've had similar success nearly every time I've made a request in that fashion as well.

Any time I've seen "Fail Atlas doesnt know his *!@#$@ job is to be up front" I start to immediately disregard that source of input.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

While I agree with Donas, (in that being polite generally yields better results), I've basically given up an assault at this point, seeing as how Conquest ends up with capping more often, but also better battles. It's rare to lose a conquest match in fewer than 5 minutes for me, and, while I occasionally die before then, I tend to die less often than I live through the match. Maybe it's just me, but I've come to prefer conquest over assault.

That said, the idea of a 'decaying cap mechanic' (for lack of a better term -- the decay would be the rate of slowing down the speed), seems wonderful to me.
Then again, I'd also like a mode without any caps at all. After 15 minutes, the match just ends. The only win condition is destroying all your opponents. (Would need to make something like what I saw in another thread -- a shrinking area of combat, which forces pilots to fight each other.) I'd definitely play that mode.

[Donas]

Spirit of the Wolf, on 16 April 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Then again, I'd also like a mode without any caps at all. After 15 minutes, the match just ends. The only win condition is destroying all your opponents. (Would need to make something like what I saw in another thread -- a shrinking area of combat, which forces pilots to fight each other.) I'd definitely play that mode.

Me too. A no-cap mode would be great. And decaying cap. The shrinking field is an awesome idea. Like a boxing match in a garbage compactor.