55 replies to this topic

[Felix Reynolds]

UPDATE- New video with the problem documented during an 8-man drop, with multiple chassis. LINK




After jumping into the Testing Grounds quickly, and from what I've seen in matches so far, I can safely say that the SSRM damage bug which has been present since the missile fix (originally brought up HERE) is still very much alive and well in MWO.

To re-iterate, this video shows what is being described, namely that-

When fired from within a roughly 90 degree wedge (45 to a side) in front of a target - more for 'flat' mechs like the Atlas and less for 'nosey' mechs - Streak missiles are doing their MAIN damage ONLY to the CT of the target, and the other components receive only splash damage (if any). The only time direct damage is applied to any other components is if they are in the way of a straight line between the launch and the target's CT.

Any response as to whether or not this is a known issue or if it is 'working as intended' would be most appreciated. While the problem primarily affects lights, any and all SSRM carrying mechs seem to be affected by this and it certainly feels like a return to the old days of SSRMs only ever locking on to a single component.

I will work on getting more video logs of this effect up as soon as I can.

In the meantime, thanks for the new patch, the new Mech, and all the hard work! Looking forward to seeing just how much of a difference the Lance system makes.

Edited by Felix Reynolds, 23 April 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[BlueSanta]

Keep bumping this topic until someone from PGI finally addresses it with something other than "I have no idea." I feel the bug is easy to recognize and that it should have been noticed by now. I have seen no word that it has even been acknowledged.

[Mad Porthos]

They already stated that the proving grounds is not the same as the in game live implementation. The streak mechanics, splash damage and even missile damage values for ssrm, srm and even lrm are different and are not relevant to the game as played in a live match.

Amongst the notable things is that the builds used to do the proving grounds still I think have srms/ssrm doing 2.5, and lrms doing 1.7... also the splash damage bugs we called lrmpocalypse that lead tothe missile hot fix may also be enshrined in testing grounds. Cant use it as a basis to critique or complai , unless it specifically that they update testing grounds as a acurate playground to test out builds and physics/mechanics.

[Jagsmar]

There is a lot of information spread out over many areas here, but in short fix isn't due for a couple of months.

http://mwomercs.com/...dated-april-15/

[Felix Reynolds]

This has also been observed in live matches- it's just harder to document. Hopefully tonight I'll be able to do a paired 8-man sync drop with some friends and put out another video similar to one above with 'live' results, but this is NOT only happening in Testing Grounds.

EDIT- Video with same thing happening in actual drops now added to top post.

Edited by Felix Reynolds, 17 April 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[BlueSanta]

Jagsmar, on 16 April 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

There is a lot of information spread out over many areas here, but in short fix isn't due for a couple of months.

http://mwomercs.com/...dated-april-15/

No, when I talked to Thomas, he said as far as he knew, NO fix for SSRMs was in the works.

Mad Porthos, on 16 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

They already stated that the proving grounds is not the same as the in game live implementation. The streak mechanics, splash damage and even missile damage values for ssrm, srm and even lrm are different and are not relevant to the game as played in a live match.

Amongst the notable things is that the builds used to do the proving grounds still I think have srms/ssrm doing 2.5, and lrms doing 1.7... also the splash damage bugs we called lrmpocalypse that lead tothe missile hot fix may also be enshrined in testing grounds. Cant use it as a basis to critique or complai , unless it specifically that they update testing grounds as a acurate playground to test out builds and physics/mechanics.

The problem is also in-game. Just pay attention. Not hard to do.

[Felix Reynolds]

Just managed to test via an 8-man sync drop, can confirm this same thing happens in the 'live' version- video being done tonight, upload to come tomorrow morning.

Had a Streak kitty, an Atlas, and a Raven all array in an arc around various targets, and every single time cored straight through the CT without doing significant damage to any other components, even with evasive torso twisting on the part of the target.

EDIT - link is up top now to the new video.

Edited by Felix Reynolds, 17 April 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[ElLocoMarko]

Yeah bump.

I found this statement from March 21 to imply that there are difficult underlying problems in all guided ordinance which have to be addressed before things like splash radius and damage values can be adjusted.

Quote

"But Paul, you said you'd REMOVE splash damage!!!!
I know I did, but here's the kicker and yet another part of the mystery of missile damage. We tried removing splash damage and it did exactly what you think it was going to do. Pinpoint on target damage. Cool right? Yes... but...

Doing this exposed a problem with the grouping/clustering of missiles. We now have a high percentage of any incoming missile targeting the CT. This is BAD."

What I really don't want to hear is that new features are being worked on in lieu of fixing existing things that are by their own admission - broken. New maps and mechs - fine. That is mostly designers. But the pay-to-get-laughed-at artillery strikes released while missiles stayed in their current state. That was wasted time.

[John MatriX82]

Yep, especially lights end up totally cored in the CT while the rest of the mech is barely scratched, happens also on several other mechs, the splash damage concentrates all on the CT.. Me and others posted in the feedback of the previous patch:
http://mwomercs.com/...nly-hitting-ct/

Please keep bumping this up so they address this annoying issue:

Streak hitting locations should be like this (default/actual hitting locations are cyan):



What happens to lights (credit to Stjobe):

Here's how my death screen damage readout usually looks after a tussle with a Streak-toting opponent:



In this particular case it was a Medium Laser that got the killing blow, but it was Streaks that did that damage to my CT.

In my cicadas I can say that the above paperdoll is what I get after bumping into a 3L with streaks or I beat the Raven but my internals are red/orangish while the rest is yellowish and I'm not useful to anything but capping..

[BlueSanta]

ElLocoMarko, on 17 April 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Yeah bump.

I found this statement from March 21 to imply that there are difficult underlying problems in all guided ordinance which have to be addressed before things like splash radius and damage values can be adjusted.



What I really don't want to hear is that new features are being worked on in lieu of fixing existing things that are by their own admission - broken. New maps and mechs - fine. That is mostly designers. But the pay-to-get-laughed-at artillery strikes released while missiles stayed in their current state. That was wasted time.

To me, Paul's statement meant that a high percentage of missiles were targeting the CT when they completely removed splash damage, which is why they didn't in the hotfix. (remember that they had planned to do that the following patch anyway BEFORE that whole disaster happened with LRM damage). Either way, it is happening.

[BlueSanta]

Bumping this for Thursday, April 18th.

[Joker Two]

John MatriX82, on 17 April 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Yep, especially lights end up totally cored in the CT while the rest of the mech is barely scratched, happens also on several other mechs, the splash damage concentrates all on the CT.. Me and others posted in the feedback of the previous patch:
http://mwomercs.com/...nly-hitting-ct/

Please keep bumping this up so they address this annoying issue:

What happens to lights (credit to Stjobe):

Here's how my death screen damage readout usually looks after a tussle with a Streak-toting opponent:



In this particular case it was a Medium Laser that got the killing blow, but it was Streaks that did that damage to my CT.

In my cicadas I can say that the above paperdoll is what I get after bumping into a 3L with streaks or I beat the Raven but my internals are red/orangish while the rest is yellowish and I'm not useful to anything but capping..

This paperdoll is almost identical to my Jenner's armor after a fight with a COM-2D. And a second fight with a RVN-3L. The Raven killed me with a front CT S-SRM hit even as I jump-jetted directly away from him. The rash of heavies and assaults being played (especially the Highlander release) probably hides this problem a little, as they can soak damage better, but this is a serious problem.

[Crashingmail]

Also this seems not be a problem with streaks only. Cored three enemies yesterday on caustic with LRMs. Mosty of them hitting the CT, and i was not using artemis !

[Thomas McRiley]

Playing a Jenner at the moment, I can confirm this. all DMG is going to the CT. Even when hit in the back, the DMG is done to my front CT.
Please fix this soon, no fun to play in this way!

[John MatriX82]

Joker Two, on 18 April 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

This paperdoll is almost identical to my Jenner's armor after a fight with a COM-2D. And a second fight with a RVN-3L. The Raven killed me with a front CT S-SRM hit even as I jump-jetted directly away from him. The rash of heavies and assaults being played (especially the Highlander release) probably hides this problem a little, as they can soak damage better, but this is a serious problem.

Thomas McRiley, on 18 April 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

Playing a Jenner at the moment, I can confirm this. all DMG is going to the CT. Even when hit in the back, the DMG is done to my front CT.
Please fix this soon, no fun to play in this way!

Yep even my cicada is getting pounded constantly in the CT even when twisting 90 degrees away or keeping the 3L/2D in my six; the only thing to do is to get rid of the pick asap, but after that you are useful as a paper fighter..

Crashingmail, on 18 April 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Also this seems not be a problem with streaks only. Cored three enemies yesterday on caustic with LRMs. Mosty of them hitting the CT, and i was not using artemis !

All the lock-on missiles keep to hit the CT; splash is dealt mostly on the same spot (CT ), Artemis makes things worse.

As I was saying in the previous patch feedback thread, running a STK 5M with 5 SSRM2 resulted in absolutely similar effects even vs heavies and assaults, with the slight difference that in a 5M you also bear 3x LL.. It can't be that hard to reprogram missiles not to hit joints close to the CT!

[Felix Reynolds]

You know, the funniest part about all of this is that I was stupidly excited to be able to pilot things like my Jenner-F again because of things like HSR for lasers and fixed Raven hit boxes. Now though with Streaks doing what they're doing it's back to the Raven 3L because now not only can you only be locked up by things with their own ECM, but also your Streaks are incredibly vicious little CT-seeking monsters.

Working on another video at the moment dealing with the 'penetration' of damage to the rear of the mech to the front, should have that up in a few days. In the meantime, I have to ask again-

Devs/mods/anyone who can answer, is this 'working as intended', the known bug that was quoted above in the message from Paul and is in the 'it'll-be-fixed-eventually' category, or an entirely different problem all its own?

[ohtochooseaname]

Thomas McRiley, on 18 April 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

Playing a Jenner at the moment, I can confirm this. all DMG is going to the CT. Even when hit in the back, the DMG is done to my front CT.
Please fix this soon, no fun to play in this way!

Jenners are actually a different case: pretty much everything hits their ct. In fact, you can run around with 1/4th the armor on the side torsos with XL engines, and almost never have a problem. If they actually hit your tiny, tiny side torsos, THAT would be out of character.

[John MatriX82]

Felix Reynolds, on 19 April 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

Devs/mods/anyone who can answer, is this 'working as intended', the known bug that was quoted above in the message from Paul and is in the 'it'll-be-fixed-eventually' category, or an entirely different problem all its own?

^^This!

[JustPyro]

Bump for this. Only splash damage is hitting anything other than the CT. Straight missile damage goes to the CT if the CT is in line. Arms will block it, but if you fire straight on, only the CT will get damage.

We did some testing in live games (not training grounds).

[BlueSanta]

Bumping this topic for Sunday, April 21st.