55 replies to this topic

[Joker Two]

Ended up with red internal front CT last night while no other location was worse than dark yellow armor. Fought only 'Mechs with Streaks and lasers, never took a PPC or ballistic hit.

This problem hasn't gone away, and neither should we!

[PropagandaWar]

Whats awesome is Streak cats will be coming back with a vengeance after Bap. I sure hope they fix this prior to that. I don't care if they reduce turn rate let it seek for only half a second, but something. As soon as streak sixes come out the world will end lol.

[Chunkylad]

PropagandaWar, on 03 May 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Whats awesome is Streak cats will be coming back with a vengeance after Bap. I sure hope they fix this prior to that. I don't care if they reduce turn rate let it seek for only half a second, but something. As soon as streak sixes come out the world will end lol.

That is what I too fear, will make a light's life hell again.

[Gevurah]

This happens with LRMs + artemis as well.

[BlueSanta]

Gevurah, on 03 May 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

This happens with LRMs + artemis as well.

Yes, and this has been acknowledged by Thomas in a PM to me. Anything wrong with SSRMs has not been acknowledged by anyone from PGI.

[Cubivorre]

I was going to watch the video.. until I saw the length.

tldw? Made a new acronym for the interwebz.

[Felix Reynolds]

Cubivorre, on 03 May 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

I was going to watch the video.. until I saw the length.

tldw? Made a new acronym for the interwebz.

I was going to summarize for you, until I realized that it would take almost as long as the 2 minutes 22 seconds that just watching the video would take. There are movie trailers that are longer.

Also, no need to watch the whole thing, but we test four chassis, one from each weight class, because generally its a good idea to get as much evidence as possible on record when trying to submit something like that.

In other news....really, really hoping that included in all the missile fixing they have said they'll be doing is a super-secret tweak to SSRM flight/homing characteristics, because so far, still not a peep.

[Felix Reynolds]

Nevermind, update to the above- this is from the latest Ask the Dev answers (37) which can be found HERE -

Quote

][/color]BlueSanta: When are you going to investigate the claims of an SSRM Bug currently in-game, where Streaks are almost always damaging the CT through either direct or splash damage, a problem that is especially affecting light mechs?
A: This actually does not happen, not every missile hits the CT every time. It’s random where each missile hits. Sometimes it may seem like you are being cored directly, however it is most likely due to splash damage. We are tuning this right now to minimize the SSRMs coring potential.

I've tried to refrain from posting a long string of :numbers: here, but this is absolutely absurd. Most mechs run anywhere between 30-40% MORE armor on their CT than their right or left torsos. The current damage values for SSRMs are 1.5 damage per missile to the 'hit' component and then, for a component that is RIGHT NEXT to where the missile hit, 0.4 of that (which equates to 0.6 damage) - and that is supposed to be a rather rare occurrence, judging by how it was explained originally-

Quote

We also added a scaling factor of 0.4 to the amount of damage done to secondary components. From the impact point to the outer radius of splash damage, this factor of 0.4 drops linearly to 0.0. This means that if somehow magically the point of impact is so close to the secondary component, the maximum damage it would take from splash is WEAPON DAMAGE * 0.4 (that is 40% of weapon damage).

(emphasis mine)

So essentially, even when dealing with *magic* missiles (heh) it takes two and a half direct hits for splash damage to equal the amount of damage being done to the initial impact component. Which, even if you split that between each side torso, means they should be taking direct hits as often as the CT is taking splash damage- yet this is clearly not the case. To break down what it would take to strip the armor off an Atlas CT (stock armor values and rounded up)-

CT - 94 points - 63 direct missile hits, OR 157 *magic* missile hits
LT/RT- 64 points - 43 direct missile hits OR 107 *magic* missile hits
LL/RL - 82 points - 55 direct missile hits OR 137 *magic* missile hits

Now, even if every time a missile hit the Left or Right torso it was doing full splash damage to the CT, it would still take 79 hits on both combined to strip the CT of armor- or, to divide that to each by itself, 40 missiles on each side.

Which you'd think would leave more of a mark than teasing those armor values down to yellow, don't you think?

This answer is frustrating beyond all belief. This isn't 'sometimes you may seem like you're getting cored' - there is nothing 'seeming' about it. You ARE getting cored. But I guess it's just all in my head...

/end rant, sorry guys

Edited by Felix Reynolds, 03 May 2013 - 02:49 PM.

[BlueSanta]

Felix Reynolds, on 03 May 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Nevermind, update to the above- this is from the latest Ask the Dev answers (37) which can be found HERE -



I've tried to refrain from posting a long string of :numbers: here, but this is absolutely absurd. Most mechs run anywhere between 30-40% MORE armor on their CT than their right or left torsos. The current damage values for SSRMs are 1.5 damage per missile to the 'hit' component and then, for a component that is RIGHT NEXT to where the missile hit, 0.4 of that (which equates to 0.6 damage) - and that is supposed to be a rather rare occurrence, judging by how it was explained originally-

(emphasis mine)

So essentially, even when dealing with *magic* missiles (heh) it takes two and a half direct hits for splash damage to equal the amount of damage being done to the initial impact component. Which, even if you split that between each side torso, means they should be taking direct hits as often as the CT is taking splash damage- yet this is clearly not the case. To break down what it would take to strip the armor off an Atlas CT (stock armor values and rounded up)-

CT - 94 points - 63 direct missile hits, OR 157 *magic* missile hits
LT/RT- 64 points - 43 direct missile hits OR 107 *magic* missile hits
LL/RL - 82 points - 55 direct missile hits OR 137 *magic* missile hits

Now, even if every time a missile hit the Left or Right torso it was doing full splash damage to the CT, it would still take 79 hits on both combined to strip the CT of armor- or, to divide that to each by itself, 40 missiles on each side.

Which you'd think would leave more of a mark than teasing those armor values down to yellow, don't you think?

This answer is frustrating beyond all belief. This isn't 'sometimes you may seem like you're getting cored' - there is nothing 'seeming' about it. You ARE getting cored. But I guess it's just all in my head...

/end rant, sorry guys

I wasn't happy with him putting words in my mouth, since I specified SSRMs damaging the CT through a direct hit OR splash, but his remarks do show that someone is tuning SSRMs in some fashion to hopefully reduce this occurrence. That's good enough for me right now until the tuning is implemented and I'm able to say whether or not it was successful.

[BlueSanta]

Dropped with Buckton from PGI randomly yesterday on Tourmaline. He was in a Spider and the mode was Conquest. He ran off to Kappa to cap but got stuck on top of the platform. A Raven found him and cored him with Streaks while I asked him if PGI still thought there was no Streak bug. He didn't reply.

[Big Giant Head]

Next time, try to aim for the legs.
Also, i noticed that streaks are fired in straight line while srms are not - maybe theres a problem

[armyof1]

Streaks are going to CT basically all the time, the splash is what's mainly damaging other parts. It's not hard to test, you get lots of CT damage even when shot from behind. I was also annoyed by the answer in ask the devs that claim that they don't focus on CT, when clearly they do. It's like they don't even test things before saying how it's actually working, instead of just saying how they think it's working. Streakcats are quickly going to show this problem beyond any doubt as soon as BAP will be cancelling out ECM.

[John MatriX82]

I've seen that answer in the latest ask to devs, and one of the game masters (I won't mention who but if he reads this he'll know) said:

-Streaks absolutely do NOT only hit the CT. I've done comprehensive tests of this myself.

So this is how it looks like shooting 5xSSRM2s from mid range and nearing 270m max range:


This is what happens when side shooting streaks into a target.. they still core out the CT easily:


So, every stock Atlas comes with 94 CT armor and over 60 internals. By this, I should have dealt with 6 salvoes something like 94+60 DMG. Therefore more than 60 damage points were inflicted through splash damage mostly on the center torso hitbox.

I don't care if testing grounds isn't that realistic or partially bugged, if you keep getting hit by SSRMs, then you're familiar with the paperdolls you can see in the video and how easy it's to get cored even if you try to torso twist to defend your CT.

Streaks targeting legs and arms should do it in the elbow for the arms and in the knee (I took a streak in the knee ) and not near the joints to the side torso or the CT.

Edited by John MatriX82, 07 May 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[DasProjektil]

Until I saw John videos I thought about making the same recordings.

I experienced the exact same thing. I used a CTPL-A1 with 4xSSRM2 for my tests.
I stood to the side of the Atlas and the CT was barely visible to me. Yet the SSRMs killed the CT even before his arm was close to falling off.
And it gets worse the smaller the Mechs are. Which makes sense if this problem is related to the splash damage.

Edited by DasProjektil, 07 May 2013 - 05:50 AM.

[Felix Reynolds]

It's great to see more videos up documenting this. However, from personal experience I can tell you if it's recorded in the Testing Grounds so far the only official response I've been able to get is 'the experience in the Testing Grounds is not indicative of the mechanics used in the actual game'.

So if you guys could manage to get videos like that but done during 8-man sync drops, it'd be even more help in trying to get this resolved. As for what 'resolved' means, I still am just looking for one simple thing- an acknowledgement that this is a problem that is actually being worked on in some way shape or form.

I think what many of us are looking for isn't an immediate hot-fix pushed out or missiles radically changed (again) to immediately stop this from happening, but so far from numerous avenues (such as ticket responses and answers in the ATD) the official line is 'Streaks aren't behaving oddly when it comes to damaging the CT'. If that is the case, then it would be greatly appreciated if someone could just pop in to this thread, quote the videos in the OP or that John has put up now and specifically say 'that is working as intended, those are the results you should see'. Otherwise, it would be great to know that this is one of the many things that the upcoming missile changes are addressing.

As it stands though, there has been no indication that this is indeed on the list to be fixed, or is even an issue. What I am really worried about is that the missile overhaul gets pushed through, including HSR, tweaked values, and whatever else the devs are cooking up with them, but this problem stays in. Short of continuing to gather and document this occurence and submitting support tickets, I really don't know what to do anymore.

[John MatriX82]

DasProjektil, on 07 May 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

Until I saw John videos I thought about making the same recordings.

I experienced the exact same thing. I used a CTPL-A1 with 4xSSRM2 for my tests.
I stood to the side of the Atlas and the CT was barely visible to me. Yet the SSRMs killed the CT even before his arm was close to falling off.
And it gets worse the smaller the Mechs are. Which makes sense if this problem is related to the splash damage.

Thanks, notice how I purposedly stood 260m away when shooting off the Atlas in the second part of the first video. This to allow streaks to spread at their maximum on such a big chassis. Nevertheless 85% of the damage got dealt to the CT..

Felix Reynolds, on 07 May 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

It's great to see more videos up documenting this. However, from personal experience I can tell you if it's recorded in the Testing Grounds so far the only official response I've been able to get is 'the experience in the Testing Grounds is not indicative of the mechanics used in the actual game'.

So if you guys could manage to get videos like that but done during 8-man sync drops, it'd be even more help in trying to get this resolved. As for what 'resolved' means, I still am just looking for one simple thing- an acknowledgement that this is a problem that is actually being worked on in some way shape or form.

Yep, I plan to record this in live game after today's patch. This to re-up the whole thread in the newer patch feedback forum..

Edited by John MatriX82, 07 May 2013 - 06:10 AM.