273 replies to this topic

[Liam]

MW4 merc MP3 Lab is the way to go, with more finer slots to allow better balancing.
Btw. not the slot system is a problem, but ammunition and heat sinks space, which is 0 in MW4 :/
The MW4 slots should be extended, and splited to more units (Largelaser from 2 slots to 8), these slots should be shared by weapons, heat sinks and ammunition.

No-customization of mechs will kill this game:
there will be almost no point in mechlab,
overuse of overpowered TRO mechs, and lot of underdog mechs

Edited by Liam, 02 November 2011 - 03:26 PM.

[Elucid Ward]

Liam, on 02 November 2011 - 03:23 PM, said:

MW4 merc MP3 Lab is the way to go, with more finer slots to allow better balancing.
Btw. not the slot system is a problem, but ammunition and heat sinks space, which is 0 in MW4 :/
The MW4 slots should be extended, and splited to more units (Largelaser from 2 slots to 8), these slots should be shared by weapons, heat sinks and ammunition.

Slot system was a massive fail in MW4. MW3's lab was better, just crits need to be fixed.

[fearfactory]

Honestly, I think all of the systems were bad. If customization was allowed I would actually hope that the rules from Strategic Operations were somehow applied... you know... Class A, B, C etc refits... in other words if you are out fighting and don't have a factory you're not throwing double heat sinks or CASE on the 'Mech.

[Kumakichi]

I think there is something to be said for limited customization. There was way too much boating configs in MW4. That level of customization led to boring gameplay BUT I've always believed MW4 was like Mechquake designed to please the fragging community (but making Microsoft lots of money in the process).

[Liam]

Kumakichi, on 02 November 2011 - 03:36 PM, said:

I think there is something to be said for limited customization. There was way too much boating configs in MW4. That level of customization led to boring gameplay BUT I've always believed MW4 was like Mechquake designed to please the fragging community (but making Microsoft lots of money in the process).

Boating is not a problem of slotsystem, but of bad damage characteristics, where Laser/Gauss/AC (with pierce rounds) should do more point penetration damage (with higher crit rate), other like PPC/LRM/LBX should do more splash damage, that would fix boating in some case.
However you will need more hit boxes, to balance the stuff with penetration and splash.

Edited by Liam, 02 November 2011 - 03:41 PM.

[Elucid Ward]

Don't limit the customisation options. Limit the ability to make them.

If you can't afford to boat, then clearly, you fkn won't. And if you can, well you've earned it.

[fearfactory]

I say deal with customization the right way: don't implement it. There are plenty of canon designs/variants to choose from.

[CG Anastasius Focht]

All my best mechs in Mercs were custom jobs, and they were not boats.
There is a counter to everything, even boats.
And its not always about the weaps, trading armour for speed and visa versa works too

BT has always had the ability to build custom mechs, its imo an essential aspect of the game

[Elucid Ward]

fearfactory, on 02 November 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

I say deal with customization the right way: don't implement it. There are plenty of canon designs/variants to choose from.

Good thing you're not the devs then.

[KaoS Hazard]

I hope the Devs ignore these stupid comments like 'it wasn't in the books'. You're never going to attract new users not familiar with the series with **** stock weapons like machine guns or a single small laser. People want to blow stuff up and play with their friends. If we don't get customization, I'm out of here.

[fearfactory]

[cg]anastasius focht, on 02 November 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

All my best mechs in Mercs were custom jobs, and they were not boats.
There is a counter to everything, even boats.
And its not always about the weaps, trading armour for speed and visa versa works too

BT has always had the ability to build custom mechs, its imo an essential aspect of the game

Not really. Most of my BattleTech games were played with stock designs because we were all quick to min/max and it got boring real fast. If you go to an official tournament you're more than likely sticking to Total Warfare which lacks the customization rules. Even so, the rules are basically "optional" but you have to use them and abide by them if you decided to design anything.

I would rather see someone kicking **** in a stock design than some laser boat he/she made. To me, that's more to brag about. I'm pretty sure all of us can create ubermechs.

[fearfactory]

KaoS_Hazard, on 02 November 2011 - 03:54 PM, said:

I hope the Devs ignore these stupid comments like 'it wasn't in the books'. You're never going to attract new users not familiar with the series with **** stock weapons like machine guns or a single small laser. People want to blow stuff up and play with their friends. If we don't get customization, I'm out of here.

In your own opinion. How are the Dev's going to look closely to BattleTech rules and implement them their own way if they aren't going to pay attention to the core rule books or BattleTech at all? In the board game the two weapons you describe as **** have their own uses.

[guardiandashi]

my point I guess is if this is supposed to be a persistant game then something like the strategic ops customization rules DOES have checks and ballances already built into the system

giving my example marauder (Mad-3R, or 3D) a DHS upgrade which is fully allowed under the refit bay level rules in strategic ops would take 1 tech team a WEEK or so of downtime. yes you can put up to 3 tech teams on 1 mech so you could cut the time down to 2-3 days of work but its gonna cost more, and the mech would be unuseable while its being refitted which frankly is a limitation.

I don't know about you but if I was told I wouldn't be able to use one of my (limited) supply of mechs for a week I know I would think long and hard about weather the refit was really worth it before I pulled the trigger and started the process.

frankly if they implement those kind of time sinks in the game I can see a lot of people actually putting thought into getting refits.

[fearfactory]

I think the customization rules in stratops would be a wonderful way to limit what players can do in order to represent the canon universe. If you don't have a factory you're not getting CASE on your 'Mech. If you want Endo Steel you have to basically buy a whole new model that has it.

EDIT: In other words customization is entirely possible. You'll just need the right things in order to do it.

Edited by fearfactory, 02 November 2011 - 04:07 PM.

[IS Wolf]

Asmudius Heng, on 02 November 2011 - 04:11 AM, said:

Remember we were all noobs once

There's a difference between being a newbie and a n00b.

And on an additional note, for those championing a MW4 type mechlab.
It didn't even allow for canon configs to be built with certain machines.

How the heck is that more BT?

And it doesn't even solve the "Boating" problem that folks are citing, because they are canon machines which are also boats.

I don't mind paying c-bills for my customs. Did it in MW2: Mercs as well.
Worked fine. Sometimes, I didn't have the dosh to install something right away. Simply meant I had to wait till I did. Or else sell stuff that I'd salvaged to get the amount of money needed.

[fearfactory]

Elucid Ward, on 02 November 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

Good thing you're not the devs then.

So you have a problem with canon designs?

[KaoS Hazard]

fearfactory, on 02 November 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

In your own opinion. How are the Dev's going to look closely to BattleTech rules and implement them their own way if they aren't going to pay attention to the core rule books or BattleTech at all? In the board game the two weapons you describe as **** have their own uses.

I do not care about the board game or the books, this is a multiplayer video game. Most people like blowing other people up, not the fact that a mech strictly adheres to a 20 year old book. The Devs said this is not a singleplayer game so we're just arguing over multiplayer settings.

How about we have servers with stock mechs only?

How about we have servers with customized mechs?

This whole post is STUPID. MW4 allowed both play styles, why can't this?

[fearfactory]

KaoS_Hazard, on 02 November 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

How about we have servers with stock mechs only?

How about we have servers with customized mechs?

/end thread.

[Elucid Ward]

fearfactory, on 02 November 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:

So you have a problem with canon designs?

I have a problem with using 'canon' as a cop out, when canon clearly dictates customisation is not only a possibility, but is prevalent.

More to the point, I have a problem with being told how I can play with my toys, when I have the means, and have earned enough to do more.

fearfactory, on 02 November 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

/end thread.

Then how do you suppose that we implement 'mech persistence if you flag different servers?

I dare say that this will be an instanced MMO, given that the progression of the lore will be in real time.

Edited by Elucid Ward, 02 November 2011 - 04:24 PM.

[fearfactory]

Elucid Ward, on 02 November 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

I have a problem with using 'canon' as a cop out, when canon clearly dictates customisation is not only a possibility, but is prevalent.

Yeah, but canon customs have published record sheets. Plus I'm fairly positive that customs are more in-line with the rules in Strategic Operations than the "on the fly/without any consequences" style most of the MechWarrior games have used. It's no cop out.

Elucid Ward, on 02 November 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

More to the point, I have a problem with being told how I can play with my toys, when I have the means, and have earned enough to do more.

What's wrong with picking a 'Mech that suits your style? I don't see the problem. I don't see how customization is really needed when it wasn't such a big deal that it was excluded in Multiplayer BattleTech: 3025 (AFAIK).

EDIT: The strategic operations rules for customization would actually make things much more interesting. Also, things like equipment ratings depending on the area where you are fighting or the circumstances (like those found in TechManual and Tactical Operations).

Elucid Ward, on 02 November 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

Then how do you suppose that we implement 'mech persistence if you flag different servers?

Easy. Drop weight limits. Say there is a 200 ton limit (think MechCommander). Want to assault boat? Go ahead, you're probably going to be outnumbered by lights and mediums.

Edited by fearfactory, 02 November 2011 - 05:06 PM.