127 replies to this topic

[Buckminster]

ICEFANG13, on 22 April 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

This doesn't look that good to be honest, but opinions on worthless MG, AMS, and BAP aside, you should never place ammo in the center torso, you have room in the legs, and although the head is almost always a safe bet, on the Catapult only, I would place it in the arm (since there is no more room in the legs).

I mean MGs do so little damage, LRMs are pathetic and no one uses them to good effect anymore, BAP is countered 100% by ECM, and the most common light and Atlas will counter it.

Why not do this?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8a69e6e3ed833e5

I know some of this build is a matter of opinion - and I won't say it's the ideal build either. But it's what works for me.

Even though LRMs are rare at this point, when I first put this together they were worth countering. I'd rather leave the AMS on than worry about the next fix when LRMs become viable again. Wait until next patch, when missiles are supposedly being un-nerfed, and HSR kicks in for missiles. All the PPCs will be gone, replaced by splatcats and missile boats.

The MGs have actually served their purpose. There is no weapon out there that I'd rather have in their place - heat on two ERPPCs is plenty. And sure, I could also add a couple DHS, but I've found that the crit ability of MGs has it's place. All it takes is one match where you are brawling with a stalker, only to look over and realize he has plenty of armor still but *no* weapons, and MGs don't seem so useless.

BAP is there mostly to fill tonnage. I've found it to be useful for long range sniping as well.

Although I suppose I should say that 'your mileage may vary' with every mech build I post. I PUG, I don't play 8-man competitively, and I have certain ideas from TT that I stick to. So my mech designs don't work for everyone.

Caviel, on 22 April 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

FF armor has limited benefits as you only gain 2-3 tons for giving up all the internal structure space.

I've found it to be more like 1-2 tons. ES is *ALWAYS* a better option.

Edited by Buckminster, 22 April 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Selfish, on 22 April 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'd recommend using Hunchbacks if you're confused on what to play. Practically every veteran of this game has whet their chops on the chassis. It has some of the best torso twist and arm control in the game, teaches damage mitigation (hunch variants drive it home), it eases you into weaponry without overwhelming you, and it's very easy on the wallet. The 4SP is still a fantastic mech even after the nerf to missiles in general. The 4P is a laser boat and insanely effective. The 4H or 4G let you experiment with ballistics. At the end of it, you'll have a good idea of what playstyle/mech you want to go for next.

I agree with all of this, but the Catapult has the best torso-twist in the game. And while the HB has real arms (and therefore greater range of motion) it's primary weapons are never in the arms anyway. All the weapons the HB uses are also in the Catapult, and easier to use in the catapult.

I did like the Hunchback a lot though. I may go back and elite-it some day.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Luther Varone, on 16 April 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

This is my 'Mech. Although my tonnage is maxed out, in order to keep my hefty AC/20 and PPC, as well as ammunition, I've had to distribute my armor and lower many of the numbers further than I'd liked. Now, I'm pretty new to this and it doesn't feel right having 15/60 armor pts for my 'Mech's legs, much less under 30 for my torso(s). I imagine that would be why I'm dying after a mere 3-to-5 shots from the enemy, which is ridiculous.

Someone once mentioned that it's my AC/20, because it's easily destroyable. Yet according to the MWO Wiki, it's among the most durable weapons out there. Besides, if the weapon was THIS easily destroyed, nobody would use it. So, what the heck am I doing wrong here??

I appreciate any input. Until I resolve the issue, I'm just gonna use trial 'Mechs

Dogshit armor rating for a heavy. Get endo steel and dhs then put all free weight into armor. I put all but around 10 armor on my front i like to be able to stand up to whatever is infront of me no matter what it is. I also run 2 ppcs 1 gauss in my 1x alot its a strong and fun sniper.

[Luther Varone]

Buckminster, on 22 April 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

I know some of this build is a matter of opinion - and I won't say it's the ideal build either. But it's what works for me.

Even though LRMs are rare at this point, when I first put this together they were worth countering. I'd rather leave the AMS on than worry about the next fix when LRMs become viable again. Wait until next patch, when missiles are supposedly being un-nerfed, and HSR kicks in for missiles. All the PPCs will be gone, replaced by splatcats and missile boats.

The MGs have actually served their purpose. There is no weapon out there that I'd rather have in their place - heat on two ERPPCs is plenty. And sure, I could also add a couple DHS, but I've found that the crit ability of MGs has it's place. All it takes is one match where you are brawling with a stalker, only to look over and realize he has plenty of armor still but *no* weapons, and MGs don't seem so useless.

BAP is there mostly to fill tonnage. I've found it to be useful for long range sniping as well.

Although I suppose I should say that 'your mileage may vary' with every mech build I post. I PUG, I don't play 8-man competitively, and I have certain ideas from TT that I stick to. So my mech designs don't work for everyone.


I've found it to be more like 1-2 tons. ES is *ALWAYS* a better option.

wow, I'm way too new at this. lol

what is: HSR, splatcats, BAP, PUG, TT, ES ?

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 22 April 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Dogshit armor rating for a heavy. Get endo steel and dhs then put all free weight into armor. I put all but around 10 armor on my front i like to be able to stand up to whatever is infront of me no matter what it is. I also run 2 ppcs 1 gauss in my 1x alot its a strong and fun sniper.

way ahead of you, my friend. That pic is from my very first post. I updated with a new pic a couple posts ago. thanks anyway though

Sadistic Savior, on 22 April 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Not at all. I use gauss on my highlander, and it hits at point blank. It is SUPPOSED to have a minimum range (it did in the Table Top game) but in this game it does not. Only downside is that it explodes like Ammo when hit...so it you only have ballistic mounts in your torso, it might be a bad idea. Especially if you have an XL engine.

If I have the weight and space for it, I always choose Gauss over PPCs. It does lots of damage at one point, it's ammo does not explode, and it generates almost no heat. But I admit PPCs have advantages; they are lighter, take less space, need no ammo, and hit much faster in combat.



I would go with Gauss over any Autocannon except maybe an AC/20. I would only trade lasers for it if you are confident you can hit close targets with a ballistic weapon. The new State rewind makes this easier than it used to be, but it is still not as easy as lasers IMO.



IMO, your armor should always be maxed or close to maxed. That is a given. That is probably why most people are not commenting on it...no one would choose to go with light armor on a heavy mech.

I would say, max out center torso and head, and distribute evenly everywhere else then go from there and tweak as you need. Arms and legs will depend on what you have stored there...if you are putting ammo in the legs, you might want to put more there. If you are carrying key weapons in an arm or torso (like that Gauss), I would put more there. If you have nothing in one or both arms, I would distribute to torso and legs first, and whatever is left over to arms.



As someone who loves to headshot heavy mechs, I would warn you that skimping on head armor is a bad idea. Especially with state rewind now on ballistic weapons. I usually target the head first. And I usually headshot a heavy mech at least once a day.

IMO, head armor should always be maxed. Even before center torso.



Depends on how good you are a piloting. If you are bad I would say it needs to be high. If you are good, I would say you can skimp on it to a large degree. Clever torso twisting will minimize rear hits even from nimble lights that are circle-strafing you.

But just as with the head, the rear is a prime target for everyone else. If they see your rear torso presented, they will go out of their way to hit it. because it is usually not well armored and therefore an easy kill.

thanks a bunch for your advice, very much appreciated.

btw what is "state rewind" on ballistics? I heard that somewhere else too, am a bit lost

[Luther Varone]

LittleGrim, on 21 April 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

I wouldn't recommend a Dragon if your having issues with the phract. I hated my phract's until I got the 4x which showed my how to play the chassis. Don't be the front line mech, hang back a little and support assaults and other mechs zooming around. For my 1X I have tried 2 builds so far that I felt I've grooved with.

One being 2 ERLL in the torso's and 3ML's in the arms. That one did ok but I'm currently running an AC20 and 5ML and a 300 standard engine(had to put endo in for this one so doubt I'll go back to the ERLL one). Runs a little hot but I just finished Elite on it so hopefully that makes a difference, otherwise I can just throw some coolshots in there.

I agree with the low set arms being hugely annoying(it's why I had the ERLL's in the torso), but the Dragon suffers from a similar problem AND it has a giant center torso but it does go fast.

if not the Dragon, my second option was a Jagermech JM-6DD. Thing is, I want to keep my PPC and Gauss, but with the Jagermech I'd have to sacrifice the elevation of my PPC, as its energy weapons are based on its waist. Slightly considering the Catapult K2, except--yet again--those waist-mounted energy hard points. Regardless, I'll keep the Cataphract but would like to seek a somewhat sleeker and higher-armed Heavy 'Mech.

[Buckminster]

Luther Varone, on 23 April 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

wow, I'm way too new at this. lol

what is: HSR, splatcats, BAP, PUG, TT, ES ?

HSR - 'host state rewind'. This is a system that PGI implemented to account for the ping of players. All combat is handled on the servers, to help prevent hax. So when you pull the trigger, a signal travels from your PC to the server, which then carries out the attack. What was happening was that high ping players (and targets) were missing, because that split second was long enough to make your aim off. So they added in HSR, which basically takes your ping and calculates where the target was when you shot and carries out the attack based on that. End result - things are easier to shoot.

Splatcat - a Catapult A1 loaded to the brim with SRMs. Typically 6 SRM6s. The end result is a mech that can get up in your face and blow it to smithereens. They were a lot more common when SRMs and splash damage were being overcalculated - missiles were very deadly, and 36 of them was just stupid.

BAP - Beagle Active Probe. http://mwowiki.org/w...le_Active_Probe

PUG - Pick Up Game. Just dropping randomly with a bunch of people, as opposed to joining up with a group beforehand. Considered the lowest form of the game, because teamwork is almost non-existent, and the experience level tends to be lower.

TT - Table Top. The old minis board game that this whole thing is loosely based on. It's where us old farts were introduced to the game.

ES - Endo Steel Infrastructure

FF - Ferro Fibrous Armor

DHS - Double Heat Sinks.

Hope this helps!

[Sadistic Savior]

Luther Varone, on 23 April 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

btw what is "state rewind" on ballistics? I heard that somewhere else too, am a bit lost

It is a server-side trick the game uses to try to compensate for crappy connections.

Your Ping time is the time it takes for you to talk to the server, and for it to respond. The faster (lower) it is, the more in sync you are with the server.

In the past, people with faster (lower Ping) connections had an advantage because they were more in sync with the server when it came to combat, so weapons were more accurate. "Lag" produced by higher ping times meant that when you press the trigger, the mech you are aiming at is actually further ahead than it is as you see it. Because what you see is lagging behind people with faster ping times...they are seeing the "real" game. You are seeing the game as it was a moment earlier. It gave them a noticeable advantage with ballistic weapons especially.

To compensate for this, many players had to learn how to lag fight, which means leading your target deliberately to make up for the lag.

State rewind compensates for that by looking at your ping times, and "rewinding" the game on the server side by the same amount to match them. So your shots will line up with what you actually see. When you press the trigger, the server pretends that you pressed it slightly earlier, by an amount equal to your ping time.

It is not perfect (it only works if your ping is stable...if it is erratic, it will not help you), but still significantly better than what we had before. So everyone's accuracy has improved and ballistics are now more dangerous. They are going to do the same thing with missiles.

[DocBach]

Use endo steel and double heatsinks, then use the weight savings to get armor

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Your playing Mechboating online, enjoy.

[Joseph Mallan]

Luther Varone, on 16 April 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

This is my 'Mech. Although my tonnage is maxed out, in order to keep my hefty AC/20 and PPC, as well as ammunition, I've had to distribute my armor and lower many of the numbers further than I'd liked. Now, I'm pretty new to this and it doesn't feel right having 15/60 armor pts for my 'Mech's legs, much less under 30 for my torso(s). I imagine that would be why I'm dying after a mere 3-to-5 shots from the enemy, which is ridiculous.

Someone once mentioned that it's my AC/20, because it's easily destroyable. Yet according to the MWO Wiki, it's among the most durable weapons out there. Besides, if the weapon was THIS easily destroyed, nobody would use it. So, what the heck am I doing wrong here??

I appreciate any input. Until I resolve the issue, I'm just gonna use trial 'Mechs

Buy Endo steel ASAP and use the tonnage saved for more armor is my only suggestion. Which I can assume has been suggested already. Nice build otherwise!

=DocBach... Evil minds think alike.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 April 2013 - 04:38 AM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

as a comparison, my 30 ton spider has 208 armor.

Edited by Geist Null, 25 April 2013 - 05:00 AM.

[Cyke]

Where you said you didn't like the idea of "not having your PPCs not in your arms", I'm assuming that the double negative is intentional and you do prefer having the PPCs in your arms.
If that's what you meant, I completely agree. My usual CTF build has one ER PPC in each arm.

For one thing, the quick arm traverse speed lets you "flick" your crosshair and peg fleeting targets.
Additionally, though the 'phract's horizontal arm flexibility is poor, the up-down flexibility is vital in many situations.
Depending on your tactical playstyle and preferred positioning, on Alpine and Tourmaline, you could find yourself on a hill while the enemy is on lower ground, or vice versa.. there's been more than a few times I got a significant damage advantage (or even an outright kill) because the enemy didn't have enough arm-mounted firepower (or none), and couldn't aim up/down far to return fire me in the first few seconds of the engagement!
Here's a tiny hint specific to this.. your minimap will block your arm crosshair right at the bottom, but just hold down Free Look (default Ctrl) and you will have a clear view of the arm reticle all the way to the top and bottom.

On some 'Mechs, there's certainly advantages to ignoring your arms (stripping them off weapons and armor) or simply using them as shields.. but because the CTF doesn't have big arms, they're nearly useless as shields, and defensive torso twisting for this 'Mech is usually to distribute damage on your left and right torsos.
On the flip side, it's rare to you'll get an arm blown off, because almost no one specifically targets arms, and the CTF's small arms are unlikely to take random hits.

So if you prefer having a particular gun in your arms, and you feel the arm-mounting will increase the number of hits you land on target in a game, go ahead.

[Luther Varone]

Cyke, on 25 April 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Where you said you didn't like the idea of "not having your PPCs not in your arms", I'm assuming that the double negative is intentional and you do prefer having the PPCs in your arms.
If that's what you meant, I completely agree. My usual CTF build has one ER PPC in each arm.

For one thing, the quick arm traverse speed lets you "flick" your crosshair and peg fleeting targets.
Additionally, though the 'phract's horizontal arm flexibility is poor, the up-down flexibility is vital in many situations.
Depending on your tactical playstyle and preferred positioning, on Alpine and Tourmaline, you could find yourself on a hill while the enemy is on lower ground, or vice versa.. there's been more than a few times I got a significant damage advantage (or even an outright kill) because the enemy didn't have enough arm-mounted firepower (or none), and couldn't aim up/down far to return fire me in the first few seconds of the engagement!
Here's a tiny hint specific to this.. your minimap will block your arm crosshair right at the bottom, but just hold down Free Look (default Ctrl) and you will have a clear view of the arm reticle all the way to the top and bottom.

On some 'Mechs, there's certainly advantages to ignoring your arms (stripping them off weapons and armor) or simply using them as shields.. but because the CTF doesn't have big arms, they're nearly useless as shields, and defensive torso twisting for this 'Mech is usually to distribute damage on your left and right torsos.
On the flip side, it's rare to you'll get an arm blown off, because almost no one specifically targets arms, and the CTF's small arms are unlikely to take random hits.

So if you prefer having a particular gun in your arms, and you feel the arm-mounting will increase the number of hits you land on target in a game, go ahead.

yep, that's what I meant.

While having my PPC on an arm makes it obviously more vulnerable to crit damage, having it anywhere else makes it more difficult to use, and I'd rather take the risk

[Luther Varone]

Selfish, on 22 April 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Dragons are fun mechs, but they're fairly expensive to get into. Don't forget you'll need to buy an XL engine to make them really work, and those will cost upwards of 5-6 million Cbills on their own.

I'd recommend using Hunchbacks if you're confused on what to play. Practically every veteran of this game has whet their chops on the chassis. It has some of the best torso twist and arm control in the game, teaches damage mitigation (hunch variants drive it home), it eases you into weaponry without overwhelming you, and it's very easy on the wallet. The 4SP is still a fantastic mech even after the nerf to missiles in general. The 4P is a laser boat and insanely effective. The 4H or 4G let you experiment with ballistics. At the end of it, you'll have a good idea of what playstyle/mech you want to go for next.

thanks for the advice. I'll look into the 4H/G

Geist Null, on 25 April 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

as a comparison, my 30 ton spider has 208 armor.

yeah, I long since fixed that

[CheeseThief]

Now it looks like you have too much armour.

You could have lost 34 points off the arms and legs, suffered no loss of performance and saved yourself the c-bills needed for the ferro.

[Sadistic Savior]

CheeseThief, on 25 April 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Now it looks like you have too much armour.

There is no such thing as too much armor.

Reducing armor is a compromise you make because you have no other choice. But it should always be maxed if at all possible.

[Luther Varone]

can someone point out what I'm not doing, or doing wrong here? I've "unlocked" all of these using XP under my pilot tab but they are clearly not applied to my actual 'Mech in game (most notable, I figured, would be the increase in speed/acceleration, among a few others)

[Just wanna play]

Sebesto, on 18 April 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

[/size]

Never, ever use a PPC. It has a minimum range and anything under 90 meters will make you do very reduced damage making the amount of damage vs heat generation scale jump real high.

Same goes for anything further then 540m away... some "long" range weapon it its......................

Luther Varone, on 27 April 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

can someone point out what I'm not doing, or doing wrong here? I've "unlocked" all of these using XP under my pilot tab but they are clearly not applied to my actual 'Mech in game (most notable, I figured, would be the increase in speed/acceleration, among a few others)

well you don't actual have the top speed boost yet, are you SURE that your mech isn't running cooler and/or stopping/accelerating faster?

[ICEFANG13]

You haven't unlocked them, you have to have 3 Cataphracts to unlock the elite and then 3 heavies (which can all be those 3 Cataphracts) to get master. Right now you have all the basics unlocked. Kinda a crummy system, but one that encourages players to spend a few bucks to skip that grind.

[Gremlich Johns]

Luther Varone, on 27 April 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

can someone point out what I'm not doing, or doing wrong here? I've "unlocked" all of these using XP under my pilot tab but they are clearly not applied to my actual 'Mech in game (most notable, I figured, would be the increase in speed/acceleration, among a few others)

You need to unlock three different variants of the same mech.