127 replies to this topic

[Luther Varone]

This is my 'Mech. Although my tonnage is maxed out, in order to keep my hefty AC/20 and PPC, as well as ammunition, I've had to distribute my armor and lower many of the numbers further than I'd liked. Now, I'm pretty new to this and it doesn't feel right having 15/60 armor pts for my 'Mech's legs, much less under 30 for my torso(s). I imagine that would be why I'm dying after a mere 3-to-5 shots from the enemy, which is ridiculous.

Someone once mentioned that it's my AC/20, because it's easily destroyable. Yet according to the MWO Wiki, it's among the most durable weapons out there. Besides, if the weapon was THIS easily destroyed, nobody would use it. So, what the heck am I doing wrong here??

I appreciate any input. Until I resolve the issue, I'm just gonna use trial 'Mechs

Edited by Luther Varone, 16 April 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[elismallz]

As far as I know, the AC 20 has 10 points of health. It doesn't explode like the gauss, so I'm unsure why they would say it's your AC/20. It could be your AC/20 AMMO that's getting hit and exploding.

As far as your build goes, you really should max out your armor. In order to use that AC/20 you'll have to get in close, and 207 points of armor just isn't enough to keep you alive for long. It looks like you've got standard structure on there and 25 free slots. Throw in some Endo Steel, that should free up 3-4 tons for you to fit more armor. I'd also recommend you put your AC/20 ammo in your spare leg slots rather than in torso slots.

Good luck!

Edited by elismallz, 16 April 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

I don't play cataphract but I will say this. You have as much armour on that mech as I do on my Spider. Right there is a huge problem. Also, your heat efficiency of 0.99 is pitiful. You'll be overheating all the time. All the weapons u carry are crazy heat generators. Ignore the comments about the AC20. It's fine. Get your heat to about 1.20+ (use Double HSs man. Don't be cheap) and bump yr armour up to at least 380ish+. If u keep yr ammo in yr legs don't skimp.

[Vilheim]

There's a few tips that can help you.

First and foremost, your armor is simply too low. You are going to need to find a few tons SOMEWHERE to flesh out yur armor. Second would be armor placement priority, I'm not sure where you have placed your armor, but the fronts of your torsos are your most important places, followed by arms. Legs and rear torsos should get what's left.

You say your are dying in 3-5 shots? How much damage would you call a typical shot hitting you? are you getting hit with PPC or Gauss shots alot? Lasers? Letting me get a good idea of just how much damage you actually are taking would help.

On a piloting level, are you torso twisting to spread damage over your 'mech? Doing this can help your survivability a lot.
Also, do you ahve any upgrades on your 'mech? These can save you tonnage or make you more heat efficient so if you don't have ANY upgrades then you definitely should.

[BoPop]

armor.

[Luther Varone]

elismallz, on 16 April 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

As far as I know, the AC 20 has 10 points of health. It doesn't explode like the gauss, so I'm unsure why they would say it's your AC/20. It could be your AC/20 AMMO that's getting hit and exploding.

As far as your build goes, you really should max out your armor. In order to use that AC/20 you'll have to get in close, and 207 points of armor just isn't enough to keep you alive for long. It looks like you've got standard structure on there and 25 free slots. Throw in some Endo Steel, that should free up 3-4 tons for you to fit more armor. I'd also recommend you put your AC/20 ammo in your spare leg slots rather than in torso slots.

Good luck!

Ammo must be the case, I'll move them to the legs. Thanks! I guess I didn't realize that was an option. I'm still finnagling with the armor buying/distributing, it's confusing me a bit more than I think it should.

Brown Hornet, on 16 April 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

I don't play cataphract but I will say this. You have as much armour on that mech as I do on my Spider. Right there is a huge problem. Also, your heat efficiency of 0.99 is pitiful. You'll be overheating all the time. All the weapons u carry are crazy heat generators. Ignore the comments about the AC20. It's fine. Get your heat to about 1.20+ (use Double HSs man. Don't be cheap) and bump yr armour up to at least 380ish+. If u keep yr ammo in yr legs don't skimp.

"don't be cheap." haha! yeah, well, I'm not all too keen on how armor works in this game; I tried adding heatsinks to free slots but kept getting "too heavy" notifications, and couldn't figure out how to adjust that aside from lowering armor points from 'Mech locations. thanks for the advice though, I'll look into getting some EndoSteel I suppose and maybe that'll free tonnage for some heatsinks(?)

Vilheim, on 16 April 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

There's a few tips that can help you.

First and foremost, your armor is simply too low. You are going to need to find a few tons SOMEWHERE to flesh out yur armor. Second would be armor placement priority, I'm not sure where you have placed your armor, but the fronts of your torsos are your most important places, followed by arms. Legs and rear torsos should get what's left.

You say your are dying in 3-5 shots? How much damage would you call a typical shot hitting you? are you getting hit with PPC or Gauss shots alot? Lasers? Letting me get a good idea of just how much damage you actually are taking would help.

On a piloting level, are you torso twisting to spread damage over your 'mech? Doing this can help your survivability a lot.
Also, do you ahve any upgrades on your 'mech? These can save you tonnage or make you more heat efficient so if you don't have ANY upgrades then you definitely should.

yeah, trust me, my armor placement is horrible as I said...I thought that was the only way to free tonnage space and add more weapons or heatsinks, clearly I was mistaken. Still deep in the learning process.

3-5 roughly it certainly seems, mostly PPCs and missiles. As for the torso twisting goes, I'm still trying to master movement in the game, it gets pretty chaotic for me at times and I know a big reason for my deaths is improper composure on the battlefield. I had read into that being a great strategy though, I just need to keep practicing...

Thanks much for all the advice

[DegeneratePervert]

CTF-1X

Here you go man. It's the 1x Build I use all the time, it's very, very effective.

[BoPop]

yea increase your armor, in fact, max it out, most on the front, at least 10 on the rears.

get some double heatsinks if you got 1.5mill cbills laying around.

rock on bro. you got 25 free slots, do something with them. you might need a smaller engine, don't know, don't have cataphracts yet. your dmg is 39 which is nice but maybe ambitious or misplaced. try more weapon configs once you max your armor. drop some off the leg, like 10 or 15 pnts of armor and round your weight out to some nice number. do not get ferrous. i think your armor should be about 400 maybe a little less depending on how much you willing to sacrifice on your legs.

i always aim for the cockpits on those cataphracts. if i have ballistics, but even with MPL or LPL i will go for that somewhat large cockpit. not saying i've killed many with 1-3 shots... but some fellas are damned good shots bro, it happens.

[ICEFANG13]

Firstly, the A/C-20 has 18 hit points, most of anything in the game currently, but since it takes up the most slots, it also gets hit the most, and that makes it more fragile. With so little armor, opponents will usually go for that shoulder anyway, which is why it dies often.

Oh that mech is not very good. It needs a lot of stuff. First I will improve it, and then I will give advice on a 'better' (what I would do) way to run it.

I've made something like what you have, in terms of numbers (surely you have the armor all spread out). There is 8 tons left over, which I suspect is for heatsinks, and ammo, for now, I will fill it with what I would consider the best, if I had to use the same mech.

So to start, I have this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1c232d6ebc8086c

There are a few things you HAVE to do:
Get Double Heatsinks, these are almost always a pure upgrade and will make heat management much easier.
Get Endo-Steel, you have (I suspect) 24 free slots, which are wasted. With Endo, you could get more tons and be more dangerous.
Get more armor, in fact, almost max. Don't run anything short of maximum (minus a few points to give you a half ton or full ton), at least while you start off.
IF you have 14 slots left, which is unlikely, get Ferro Fiberous armor as well, its like a worse version of Endo Steel.

Here is a straight upgrade it could even use FF armor, which we will ignore for now, and increase its engine size. It loses 1 ton of ammo currently for its A/C-20. If you ignore my other opinions, at least do this. Remember, ammo placement and armor placement is your choice, I just jam them in places. I will give you a full loadout when I'm finished here.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1c232d6ebc8086c

Now onto weapons.

The A/C-20 is a great weapon, but usually requires closer range, for this I suggest:
Better close range weapons
Higher engine if possible.

A/C-20s usually only require 3 tons of ammo, and a 4th is great. 5 is probably too much.

Your ER PPC is good for sniping, but is too hot to really be effective at close range, and your ER large is too hot as well, and not as good at longer range as PPCs. If you really want to do the Sniper+A/C-20 thing, I would suggest removing them and putting 2 PPCs instead of ER PPC and ER Large, however, most mechs are best when they go to their strengths, for this reason, I suggest either 3 Large Lasers, or 2 Large Pulse Lasers. I'm found of LPL, so I will be using them. To make room, I will remove the AMS, because AMS is not only terrible, in the current state of MWO, LRMs and other missiles are pretty terrible, so its even worse. Most mechs should avoid AMS, at least currently. Because of the simplisity of the mech, I added FF armor as well.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e8ba60e93cef36c

Although that mech is pretty powerful at close range, it has some extra tonnage still, and that .39 tons, I will be taking armor off the legs (usually the best place to strip if you are not a light mech) to make it a full ton. This is also were I will place the ammo, as people avoid shooting legs off bigger mechs. Make sure you don't strip too much, as people will notice and you will die to it.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e5d9277396642d7

This is the mech I would run. I would consider leaving 3 tons of ammo, and no HS in the engine, and increasing engine size, but in the interest of keeping it overall cheaper, I left the 280 you started with.

Hope that helped

[Luther Varone]

how useful/powerful are Medium to Large Lasers, really? Small Lasers seem practically useless. And what about Machineguns? I've already got some bigtime heat-generating weapons, looking to add a lil' something-something without making my 'Mech volcanic.

Here is my armor placement


and what my 'Mech is looking like after some significant changes

[Koniving]

Luther Varone, on 16 April 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

This is my 'Mech. Although my tonnage is maxed out, in order to keep my hefty AC/20 and PPC, as well as ammunition, I've had to distribute my armor and lower many of the numbers further than I'd liked. Now, I'm pretty new to this and it doesn't feel right having 15/60 armor pts for my 'Mech's legs, much less under 30 for my torso(s). I imagine that would be why I'm dying after a mere 3-to-5 shots from the enemy, which is ridiculous.
Someone once mentioned that it's my AC/20, because it's easily destroyable. Yet according to the MWO Wiki, it's among the most durable weapons out there. Besides, if the weapon was THIS easily destroyed, nobody would use it. So, what the heck am I doing wrong here??
I appreciate any input. Until I resolve the issue, I'm just gonna use trial 'Mechs

One, although you have decent burst damage, you have some heat issues. Worse, you're quite slow for a 1x. Aside from that, as Zeprome might tell you as a player who didn't heed the advice to avoid 'phracts until later in the game, the cataphracts are not very new player friendly.

A new player friendly mech is a mech that cannot possibly have a bad build; one that is versatile enough to run any build and still kill. Examples of these include Centurions, Hunchbacks, Trebuchets. Examples of bad ones include Spiders, Atlas, Awesome, and Cataphracts.

That said... Here's my build.

Normally I run 5 large lasers, same engine.

[ICEFANG13]

Luther Varone, on 16 April 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

how useful/powerful are Medium to Large Lasers, really? Small Lasers seem practically useless. And what about Machineguns? I've already got some bigtime heat-generating weapons, looking to add a lil' something-something without making my 'Mech volcanic.

Small Lasers do 1/3 damage (3) of the Large (9) at 1/10 of the weight and 2 heat to the LL's 7, but with much less range, and much less 'energy hard point efficiency' (you'd need 3 slots to make up the damage, while if you have the tons, 3 LLs would be better for damage). Medium Lasers do 5 to 9 damage, and 4 to 7 heat, with 1/5 the tons (1 to 5) with about half the range.

Generally speaking light mechs use lighter energy weapons, and heavy mechs use heavier ones. Smaller energy weapons are generally more powerful, but also have such short range, and are not powerful alone that they aren't used on heavier mechs. However, instead of FF armor and 2 LPL with a HS, if you did a bunch of Medium Lasers, and Heatsinks to take care of the heat, that would be powerful as well.

Something like this I guess:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...027eb50ebc874bf

[Rhinzual]

Luther Varone, on 16 April 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

how useful/powerful are Medium to Large Lasers, really? Small Lasers seem practically useless. And what about Machineguns? I've already got some bigtime heat-generating weapons, looking to add a lil' something-something without making my 'Mech volcanic.

Here is my armor placement


and what my 'Mech is looking like after some significant changes

The reason Endo-steel was recommended was because it's a much better weight saver than FF armor. The two things everyone on these forums recommends doing is getting Double Heat Sinks and Endo-Steel Structure. It's usually the Lights like the Raven-L3 that can use both Endo-Steel and FF because of all those slots and only a few hardpoints for weapons in general. You -may- have to change back to standard armor so you can fit Endo-Steel and still have room for more weapons, and the change from FF back to standard is a very expensive ordeal. The thing most new players are advised to do is get Double Heat Sinks -> Endo-Steel -> Weapons/Engines or whatever you're building your mech around, ammo included -> then FF armor if you have the slots for it.

[Mokou]

HAHAHAHA~
About 200 armor and u have AC/20. This is too heavy for defence weapon if u sniner (ER PPC and ER LARGE LASER).
But if u close rang mech, too low armor, too low HE.

[BoPop]

Rhinzual, on 16 April 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

You -may- have to change back to standard armor so you can fit Endo-Steel

Rhinzual, on 16 April 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

Double Heat Sinks -> Endo-Steel -> Weapons/Engines

nice nutshell hehe

Rhinzual, on 16 April 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

then FF armor if you have the slots for it.

and you almost never ever ever will, i've found.

[Agentpony]

Luther Varone, on 16 April 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

how useful/powerful are Medium to Large Lasers, really? Small Lasers seem practically useless. And what about Machineguns? I've already got some bigtime heat-generating weapons, looking to add a lil' something-something without making my 'Mech volcanic.

Smaller lasers are more efficient in the DPS and/or Heat per second department compared to the larger ones, at the tradeoff of range. Medium lasers in particular are in a pretty sweet spot and rather useful in many combat situations. They are powerful enough to actually be your main weapons.

Machine guns are USELESS against armor. They do have significantly more damage against exposed components. But for that, you have to have an enemy stripped of armor, be in range and have the aim to go for the exposed component. There is also the problem that you cant possibly go through a ton of machinegun ammo (2000 shots) with just one MG, and you only have one ballistics hardpoint.

As to your build, I think your main problem is actually that huge AC/20. In my view, it is a rather specialist weapon with too many tradeoffs on anything less than an assault Mech.

[Evil Ed]

DegeneratePervert, on 16 April 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

CTF-1X

Here you go man. It's the 1x Build I use all the time, it's very, very effective.

Didn't even have to click the link, I knew what it was and this is THE 1X-build. I run mine with 3tons of ammo and little less leg armor which gives med two extra double heatsinks. My tactics are basic: be the third arm of an friendly Atlas. He will absorb damage and you will tip the scale in every brawl he gets involved in. That 45dmg alpha is devastating to everything thats already been primed by your friend.

OP: I think I played a game with/against you yesterday, Alpine?

Edited by Evil Ed, 16 April 2013 - 11:20 PM.

[loliza]

DegeneratePervert, on 16 April 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

CTF-1X

Here you go man. It's the 1x Build I use all the time, it's very, very effective.

indeed one of the best 1x builds

Edited by loliza, 17 April 2013 - 12:17 AM.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Looks solid as a bawler that 1x but does mean u need to be around 270m effective range. I think the OP can do better. I say keep the erppc. Go uac5 and the rest mls with a bigger engine.

[zraven7]

Dude, wow, you need armor. I mean, my Jenner would eat you for breakfast, and I'm not the best pilot out there, believe me.

Consider switching out the AC20 for an UAC5. It has better range, and, assuming it doesn't jam, you can put out similar DPS. Even without using the autofire, it's still decent DPS, especiall backed by your lasers.

If you're still wanting a high damage in a single shot, try equipping 2 ERPPCs. You won't have to allocate weight for ammo, you'll have the same damage as the AC20 in a burst, and better range. Just make sure you get double heat sinks, and lots of em.