228 replies to this topic

[silentD11]

aniviron, on 18 April 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Translation: Lights aren't meant to do damage.

Okay then, what is the function of a light in the game?

Don't you dare tell me it is "scouting." Scouting is not a valid role. You need a scout very briefly at the beginning of the game to determine where the main enemy push is. After that, you know more or less where they are, and can monitor their positions from afar with an assault. And honestly, the maps are not large or complex enough (even alp and tourm) that you need scouting even for an eight-assault team. Didn't find the enemy the way you went? Then they went to the other side of the map as you.

Lights are meant to break up unbalanced teams and crush weaker players. A common tactic is to just rush their base with your lights. Wait till the enemy team gets about mid field and then start capping them.

They have two choices, don't return to base and thus lose to a cap. Or return to base to stop it. If they don't have any lights you get a nice train where the team breaks up by the speed they move it. This usually leaves people easy prey for the rest of your team as they space out, or gives your team a numerical advantage in the firefight. Since very few groups have any sort of strategy or plan other than trying to turn the game into a mob based TDM match you can cause a fair amount of havoc doing this and it's super effective against players who don't know what they're doing.

You're main goal should be punishing teams for dropping too heavy, breaking up the main enemy force through capping for your heavies, or countering other lights from doing the same to your team. Once the other team is broken up and your side has a numerical advantage you can join the fight and attack already damaged mechs, or if the other team decided not to break up just cap them and call it a day.

[Marcus Cvellus]

silentD11, on 19 April 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Lights are meant to break up unbalanced teams and crush weaker players. A common tactic is to just rush their base with your lights. Wait till the enemy team gets about mid field and then start capping them.

They have two choices, don't return to base and thus lose to a cap. Or return to base to stop it. If they don't have any lights you get a nice train where the team breaks up by the speed they move it. This usually leaves people easy prey for the rest of your team as they space out, or gives your team a numerical advantage in the firefight. Since very few groups have any sort of strategy or plan other than trying to turn the game into a mob based TDM match you can cause a fair amount of havoc doing this and it's super effective against players who don't know what they're doing.

You're main goal should be punishing teams for dropping too heavy, breaking up the main enemy force through capping for your heavies, or countering other lights from doing the same to your team. Once the other team is broken up and your side has a numerical advantage you can join the fight and attack already damaged mechs, or if the other team decided not to break up just cap them and call it a day.

That is 100% viable tactic. And it happens more often than not.
But again, is that all to that class? Is there only that one strategy?
If answer is yes, we are in even bigger problem than we initially thought.

[Appogee]

LOL ''scouting''.

I will create a macro that auto-types ''enemy sighted at D5''.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

This account was supposed to be primarily a light and medium mech specialist... but I feel like I have to start acquiring more heavies if I want to stay competitive any more with it.

There's not much enjoyment to be had playing light mechs (other than the Raven 3L) any more if you want to meaningfully contribute to your team's victory through direct combat rather than just trolling teams by base capping all day.

Light vs. Light combat is a joke so long as no-aim streaks still dominate the light combat Meta game.

Despite streaks being God in this game, a non-streak light pilot used to at least be able to find solace in his ability to solo a lone assault mech he caught alone. In higher ELO brackets, the assault mechs aren't easy pickings any more... you go near a high alpha build and you're legged in one shot.

I don't know any of my friends who still primarily pilot lights any more. This has just turned into every other Mechwarrior game before it where 75% of the people are in heavy or assault mechs.

Lotsa heavy/assault only pilots still want collisions back in, but if they come back like they were before it would just be the final nail in the coffin for lights.

Sure, there are still some exceptional light pilots out there who will go on playing them.... but 95% of players take the path of least resistance to win. Which right now is to strap PPCs or Large Lasers on a Stalker (or build a Poptart) and go to town.

.

Edited by Rat of the Legion Vega, 19 April 2013 - 02:14 PM.

[Rhinzual]

silentD11, on 19 April 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Lights are meant to break up unbalanced teams and crush weaker players. A common tactic is to just rush their base with your lights. Wait till the enemy team gets about mid field and then start capping them.

They have two choices, don't return to base and thus lose to a cap. Or return to base to stop it. If they don't have any lights you get a nice train where the team breaks up by the speed they move it. This usually leaves people easy prey for the rest of your team as they space out, or gives your team a numerical advantage in the firefight. Since very few groups have any sort of strategy or plan other than trying to turn the game into a mob based TDM match you can cause a fair amount of havoc doing this and it's super effective against players who don't know what they're doing.

You're main goal should be punishing teams for dropping too heavy, breaking up the main enemy force through capping for your heavies, or countering other lights from doing the same to your team. Once the other team is broken up and your side has a numerical advantage you can join the fight and attack already damaged mechs, or if the other team decided not to break up just cap them and call it a day.

Until the matchmaker actually starts taking weight classes into account, then you're not punishing enemy teams for dropping in too heavy, you're just showing them that the matchmaker is never sober because hey, it's not their fault they ended up with 6 assaults, 1 heavy, and just 1 Centurion in a PuG match.

[Torqueware]

theDeimos, on 17 April 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

I'm amazed how much of a difference HSR for PPCs and Ballistics makes.

Seems like the glorious days of the speedy harrassers are over, took my spider and my raven for a few spins last night to test their values with ppc loadouts...

I got GIBBED so fast its not even funny. Forget about running past the whole enemy team without getting barely any damage. The difference is HUGE.

Tough times to be in a light mech now. We gotta change tactics fellow light pilots. No more anklebiting in cqb.

Ehhh, Commando pilots that did not rely on ECM already fought in these conditions. No biggie.

[Vahnn]

Spider 5D and Jenner F/K. I am loving them. Still.

[silentD11]

Rhinzual, on 19 April 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Until the matchmaker actually starts taking weight classes into account, then you're not punishing enemy teams for dropping in too heavy, you're just showing them that the matchmaker is never sober because hey, it's not their fault they ended up with 6 assaults, 1 heavy, and just 1 Centurion in a PuG match.

Talking about organized 8v8 as well, pugs aren't a good example of anything other than mass stupidity and lack of talent.

[Sephlock]

The frequency of Alpine and Tourmaline was just too much for me. I've switched to a fast ECM Raven, going for the caps.



Its working out okay I guess. Its not fun, but neither is slowly plodding towards an enemy that may not even be there.

[Rascula]

If it helps bring more mediums back into the game then good, lights have had it way too easy for way to long.

[LordBraxton]

Lights don't need anything.

Mediums have needed help for a while.

Post SRM nerf mediums are not worth taking ever for any reason

unless you are playing a 2/2/2/2 or some other organized drop

Edited by LordBraxton, 19 April 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Akulakhan]

As predominately a light pilot, there's really not much of a difference since the last patch, technically speaking. It's been a little ridiculous tonight specifically (15 assaults per match ftw!) but that's a temporary issue and I still had good matches.

As a light, you KNOW you don't have an egregiously heavy amount of durability, and you KNOW you have speed. Sometimes, you even have jump jets. So you shouldn't be fighting anything but other lights and the occasional medium head on. You should never have been doing that in the first place, although broken game mechanics temporarily allowed you to do so.

There's no way anyone can say the JR7-F and Raven 3-L are underpowered, the JR7-D and CDA-3M are solid mechs as well. If you're having a hard time since the last patch, I'm sorry to say this but you've been doing it wrong.

Your strategy is bob and weave, torso twist, and fly away. Brawl only when the enemy is distracted and you have the speed and skill advantage. Your primary function is scouting, light-killing, harassment, and capping. If your team underperforms, you're often it's only hope. You can still be a hero as a light, you just gotta play well. I know when i die it's because I messed up hard, or the game was lost already.

tl;dr: There's no problem. The netcode is fixed, firing delay is fixed, and ping will no longer protect you. If you're having a hard time now when you weren't before, you were just exploiting bad code.

[silentD11]

LordBraxton, on 19 April 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Lights don't need anything.

Mediums have needed help for a while.

Post SRM nerf mediums are not worth taking ever for any reason

unless you are playing a 2/2/2/2 or some other organized drop

I'd say this is only partly correct. The zombie cent builds and others are still solid "hang back and defend to wait if there is a rush, still has speed to bolt up to the team" options. The 4p hunch is as solid of a "get behind a mech quick in a brawl and let rip" option as ever. And let's not pretend all lights are good, they aren't. Outside of the 3l and some jenners, lights just were never worth ****.

[Khan Reaper]

Agreed. Not seeing as many lights now, but when I see them, they are pilots to be feared. To me, this is a good thing. Now light piloting is taking a little more skill than before.

Seeing more lights in Conquest than in Assault though. Also a good thing in my opinion.

[hammerreborn]

So apparently I was wrong, it's only 25k c-bills to play a scout and cap the base.

Ya...this game really encourages it >.>

[aniviron]

silentD11, on 19 April 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Lights are meant to break up unbalanced teams and crush weaker players. A common tactic is to just rush their base with your lights. Wait till the enemy team gets about mid field and then start capping them.

The first point is almost totally silly. Lights are meant to kill bad players? Ahhh, because heavies have such a hard time killing bad players, it makes sense now.

The second happens fairly often, but works almost never. Even in the fully-pug games I tend to play, usually at least one person has the brains to say, "me and the cata are going back, nobody else go." then they go, kill the one player sitting at base hoping nobody comes for 180 seconds, and head back to the fight to mop up. Yes, then they are lacking two players out front, but your team is also lacking a player, that being you. And when they are done killing you because you are a light and can't really do anything about it, they head back, and your team is down a player and they are not.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

Akulakhan, on 19 April 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

So you shouldn't be fighting anything but other lights and the occasional medium head on.

Because there's sooooo many of those in matches nowdays.

Being part of the same unit, I know you're a great light player, and hopefully you've seen I can be decent in them too from time to time. I've long ago mastered Jenners, Ravens and Cicadas and am working on Spiders now. Perhaps that's what's colouring my perception as to light's usefulness or lack thereof.

The question people in this thread are raising is what is the INCENTIVE to run lights at the moment? If you're great in lights you'd probably be very good in heavies as well. Heavies that can do massive damage and kill several enemy mechs and earn you way more in CBills and XP than you get from playing a light.

You pretty much just have to love light mechs for the sake of it, or have a NEED FOR SPEED to want to play them. The game certainly isn't rewarding you for doing so. Neither is the community - the more you focus on stealth capping, the more scorn is heaped your way over the all chat from the 14 assault mechs in the match.

Akulakhan, on 19 April 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

If your team underperforms, you're often it's only hope. You can still be a hero as a light, you just gotta play well.

See, that's the other thing. I still like to solo drop A LOT. In some matches I'm my PUG team's only hope for victory no matter what class of mech I'm piloting. When I screw up (as I often do) in a heavy mech, I can shrug off the hit and possibly go on wracking up enough kills to give my team the advantage. In a light mech, when I screw up, I'm often killed in a single alpha. Even if I dodge 80% of the flak headed my way (pretty hard to do when it's no miss streak missiles headed my way), I simply don't have the firepower to carry my team.

TL/DR: I simply can't carry a team to victory in direct combat in a light the way I can in a heavy. I'm way more dependent on the other PUGs and 4-man on my team... which more than 50% of the time doesn't pan out in my favour.

So what's the incentive for me to pilot a light again??

We can pretend there's no problem here, but the fact that the majority of players are now jumping into heavies and assaults exclusively shows that my line of thinking isn't off base... actions speak louder than words.

.

Edited by Rat of the Legion Vega, 19 April 2013 - 09:56 PM.

[hammerreborn]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 19 April 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

See, that's the other thing. I still like to solo drop A LOT. In some matches I'm my PUG team's only hope for victory no matter what class of mech I'm piloting. When I screw up (as I often do) in a heavy mech, I can shrug off the hit and possibly go on wracking up enough kills to give my team the advantage. In a light mech, when I screw up, I'm often killed in a single alpha. Even if I dodge 80% of the flak headed my way (pretty hard to do when it's no miss streak missiles headed my way), I simply don't have the firepower to carry my team.

TL/DR: I simply can't carry a team to victory in direct combat in a light the way I can in a heavy. I'm way more dependent on the other PUGs and 4-man on my team... which more than 50% of the time doesn't pan out in my favour.

So what's the incentive for me to pilot a light again??

We can pretend there's no problem here, but the fact that the majority of players are now jumping into heavies and assaults exclusively shows that my line of thinking isn't off base... actions speak louder than words.

.

Don't forget that when you're in a light watching your pugs get slaughtered you're also not getting any cbills because you're unlikely to be doing any significant damage.

[Silentium]

The incentive to run lights is what it has always been, because they are fun, nothing more. Some do not find them enjoyable, and I get that. I thought they weren't fun for a second there too, until I tried heavier mechs and learned just how frustrating this game can be.

[hammerreborn]

Silentium, on 19 April 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

The incentive to run lights is what it has always been, because they are fun, nothing more. Some do not find them enjoyable, and I get that. I thought they weren't fun for a second there too, until I tried heavier mechs and learned just how frustrating this game can be.

That's a terrible incentive. Lights cost as much as an assault when all upgrades are taken into account but instead of gaining 100k a match to afford upgrades you get 25k-50k, on wins.

In the r&r days lights were the best way to get money because the 100k win rewards made up for all repair costs while assaults ammo loads cost nearly everything they gained, even losing money on bad losses.

Edited by hammerreborn, 20 April 2013 - 06:46 PM.