50 replies to this topic

[Jess Hazen]

First they should triple the armor points per ton, and triple the damage of all weapons.

Then they should quarter the speed of everything so nothing can move fast and quadruple gravity so nobody can leave the ground.

And then they should remove bases so you can't be caped out.

Finally they should remove the game timer so that the game lasts until all mechs are destroyed.

Only then will the game will be playable again.

[Steel Claws]

There is not a problem. If it isn't to your tastes then OH well. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad or OP.

[TruePoindexter]

Relic1701, on 17 April 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

The problem is not the jump snipers, it's the fact there is no drawback to playing one, so everyone does. Adding the expanding x-hair, or constant cockpit shake while airborne will not stop people from being a pop tart, it will just take a lot more skill to do so....therefore we will be back to skill taking centre stage and not FOTM builds.

I really beg to differ with this statement. Everyone does not play jump snipers - some do but most don't. Jump sniping can be effective but to date I have not seen a single game swung by jump sniping.

If you think you've lost a game (as in the match not just died) because of jump sniping you are almost certainly wrong. You lost the game because your team was out played. Remember that jump snipers are not contributing to the frontal line of their team. Snipers on a team generally weaken the front creating a vulnerability to a fast aggressive team. In fact I would argue that jump sniping is a bad idea because of this. It is very hard (if not impossible) for a jump sniper to provide enough fire support to make up for the induced weakness at the front. This isn't CoD or BF3 where a sniper can outright kill a target fast enough to prevent a flanker from coming around the sides or a rush from crashing through the front lines.

[Wispsy]

Warlune, on 17 April 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

I think the problem with jump sniping is the terrain of our maps. There is an overabundance of cliffs and ideal spots for jump snipers.

I am pretty sure making flat maps with 1 hill on each side will not make life harder for jumpsnipers...

[Wispsy]

TruePoindexter, on 17 April 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

I really beg to differ with this statement. Everyone does not play jump snipers - some do but most don't. Jump sniping can be effective but to date I have not seen a single game swung by jump sniping.

If you think you've lost a game (as in the match not just died) because of jump sniping you are almost certainly wrong. You lost the game because your team was out played. Remember that jump snipers are not contributing to the frontal line of their team. Snipers on a team generally weaken the front creating a vulnerability to a fast aggressive team. In fact I would argue that jump sniping is a bad idea because of this. It is very hard (if not impossible) for a jump sniper to provide enough fire support to make up for the induced weakness at the front. This isn't CoD or BF3 where a sniper can outright kill a target fast enough to prevent a flanker from coming around the sides or a rush from crashing through the front lines.

Jump snipers do not do less damage then the majority of normal sniper. I cannot see how giving up less then 10% of your weight for more time on target and safety is a 'bad' idea as a sniper.

[Smk]

Wispsy, on 17 April 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Jump snipers do not do less damage then the majority of normal sniper. I cannot see how giving up less then 10% of your weight for more time on target and safety is a 'bad' idea as a sniper.

It's not. It's amazing. There's a reason why people complain about it so much. It's not like you lose your ability to snipe normally with JJs equiped.

Usually Jump snipers do more damage than their counter parts simply because they can put fire down to the enemy from anywhere where as a normal sniper has to position himself somewhere where he can see them. My 3D is hands down my best mech statically. I can have an impact on just about any fight anywhere on the map without having to reposition myself very much.

[TruePoindexter]

Wispsy, on 17 April 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Jump snipers do not do less damage then the majority of normal sniper. I cannot see how giving up less then 10% of your weight for more time on target and safety is a 'bad' idea as a sniper.

A standing sniper can output more firepower as a jumping sniper. Even if the damage in a single shot is matched their consistency in output is greatly reduced due to the simple fact that they cannot track targets due to jumping in and out of LOS.

What I'm saying is that sniping is in general a gamble. When you run a sniper what you're really saying is this:

"I am a good enough sniper that my shooting can compensate for my absence from the front line."

If you're a jump sniper you're taking it even a step further

"I am a good enough sniper that my shooting can compensate for my absence the front line and I only need to fire infrequently."

If you're confident of either of those statements then I suppose you're not weakening the front and sniping isn't so bad. Personal experience shows that very few people can make those statements with confidence.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 17 April 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[Wispsy]

TruePoindexter, on 17 April 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

A standing sniper can output more firepower as a jumping sniper. Even if the damage in a single shot is matched their consistency in output is greatly reduced due to the simple fact that they cannot track targets due to jumping in and out of LOS.

What I'm saying is that sniping is in general a gamble. When you run a sniper what you're really saying is this:

"I am a good enough sniper that my shooting can compensate for my absence from the front line."

If you're a jump sniper you're taking it even a step further

"I am a good enough sniper that my shooting can compensate for my absence the front line and I only need to fire infrequently."

If you're confident of either of those statements then I suppose you're not weakening the front and sniping isn't so bad. Personal experience shows that very few people can make those statements with confidence.

Actually jumpjets allow you easier shots (it is easier to fire whilst doing a nice even jump, everything is smooth and you can use the jumpjets themselves to line up your weapons) whilst moving and you can output more fire then a standing sniper (you need to move an awful lot less to find targets to shoot at, just jump up higher and reveal more of the map) whilst keeping yourself as safe as possible (when you peek up for a shot in a non jump mech you need to stop moving forward then reverse back, when jumping just get go of space and you instantly start falling down quickly). Jumpjets are not a hindrance in this game. They have always been worth the weight even on a brawler. To say they make sniping less effective is just crazy and to say it is a detriment to the team makes no sense. You can fire more often whilst the enemy can fire less back at you, you move the same speed as anybody your weight and have the same firepower, with the advantage that it is likely to all be pinpoint so the more accurate the are the better it is. The only way being a jump sniper is worse then being a frontline brawler is if you have very poor aim or incredibly bad awareness and positioning.

Edit: Just putting this out there, not taking damage whilst still firing is just as important as doing damage. If you go face to face brawler atlas to brawler atlas you take one for one trades in shots. It is unavoidable. As a sniper (especially the jumping kind) you can get an awful lot more shots on people without taking any hits at all.

Edited by Wispsy, 17 April 2013 - 03:25 PM.

[Commander Kobold]

the only thing that should wobble around is the arm crosshair, the torso mounted ones should remain stable.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I'm not really for the spreading of the crosshairs idea.
What I would like to actually be implemented instead is that when you use JJ's, your cockpit, pilot, mech, crosshairs are all moving around. The mech isn't on a solid platform like the ground anymore, and the thrusters will constantly be adjusting to keep it up-right in mid-air.

So the difference here is: You're crosshairs remain the same, but your entire mech is moving around. You'll still be able to correct the random motion your mech is making in mid-flight with your mouse.
I think this is better because you're not playing the random guessing game where you're crosshairs are 5 times the size of the target, and aiming becomes pretty redundant since you don't even know where the projectile is going to go. A widened cross-hair does nothing. You can have perfect aim with your target in the middle, you press fire, and it can land 15m behind him. Close. But it's a miss, and you're already falling down to the ground. You're skill is reduced down to RNG, where all you can do is just hope that when you click fire it's going to land where you want it to. I think that's too big of a nerf. You still need that accuracy of "where i'm aiming, is where it's going to go". Yet, you still need to make it harder for them to aim - and thats where the moving crosshairs comes into the play.

A simple example: extend your arm, point at a word on the screen, close one eye and try to use your finger as a cross hair on a gun. Try your best to hold your finger still. You'll see it wobble around a bit over the word, and you might be able to get it steady even to where it's just slightly shaking. This what I'm getting at.Even this slightest movement can mean you're hitting a mech's CT or Arm at 1000m.
When you see that crosshair directly over the CT, it's up to your reaction time to click the mouse fast enough to nail that good shot. If you're reaction time is good enough to counter-act the random wobbeling effects, that's even better for you. That makes you a better sniper over all. You have control over the things you are able to control, and it's less of a guessing game as it would be with wider cross hairs.


TL;DR
A widened cross-hair doesn't make much sense to me and replaces skill with a guessing game, but a cross-hair wobbeling effect gives you control when you fire, and gives you control to counteract the wobbeling effects if you're good enough when using jumpjets. \

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 17 April 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[CrashieJ]

new solution, Aim Higher.