72 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Fut, on 17 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

It doesn't really seem to be cries for Nerfing of anything actually.
It's more of an observation of the current game; it's hard to deny that there's an above average amount of Sniper Builds in play these days. Which can only lead to one conclusion - something is out of whack.

Although I think that the game needs some tweaking, I don't think it's cause for alarm. Things are looking better and better with each patch and once PGI fixes Missiles people will have other long range options to work with. Then we'll see the Sniper Builds taper off.

Maybe because ranged weapons have finally been made dangerous? Just a thought...

[Cuthbert Allgood]

I never pictured when playing table top that the mech was flying through the air weapons a blazing. I always saw it as huge cumbersome mech flying through the air slamming into the ground, then where it lands attempting to fire at a target with that +3 added to all its other modifiers , that equal his chance to hit! Did not do a lot of hitting targets after jumping so usually it was just a mode of conveyance. I would say a good "Poptart" fix would be just that...weapons can not or do not fire till you land. And no I have no real problem with "Poptarts" in this game thus far, but it really did do a great job of wrecking MW4

[Kdogg788]

Fut, on 17 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

It doesn't really seem to be cries for Nerfing of anything actually.
It's more of an observation of the current game; it's hard to deny that there's an above average amount of Sniper Builds in play these days. Which can only lead to one conclusion - something is out of whack.

Although I think that the game needs some tweaking, I don't think it's cause for alarm. Things are looking better and better with each patch and once PGI fixes Missiles people will have other long range options to work with. Then we'll see the Sniper Builds taper off.

When people come on here and say we want BIGGER and BIGGER maps because "Every match is a brawl." then we get PPCs, ERPPCs, and Gauss, etc. as the order of the day, as they have the range to soften the enemy up with these big maps without the travel time, warning alarms, or nerfage of LRMs. What we need is heat for PPCs bumped back up a bit and some sort of penalty for Gauss even if it is non-canon or non-TT.

-k

[DeadlyNerd]

Kdogg788, on 17 April 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

When people come on here and say we want BIGGER and BIGGER maps because "Every match is a brawl." then we get PPCs, ERPPCs, and Gauss, etc. as the order of the day, as they have the range to soften the enemy up with these big maps without the travel time, warning alarms, or nerfage of LRMs. What we need is heat for PPCs bumped back up a bit and some sort of penalty for Gauss even if it is non-canon or non-TT.

-k

A bigger map doesn't have to mean, a great big flat surface where it's open season on brawlers.
Turmaline is a good example of a giant map with balanced landscape.

[Royalewithcheese]

Kdogg788, on 17 April 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

When people come on here and say we want BIGGER and BIGGER maps because "Every match is a brawl."

The funny thing to me is that most pug blobs are completely incapable of handing Alpine. The average strategy is basically:

• Blob in the general direction of the nearest thing you can capture.
  
• When you encounter a robot with a red triangle over its head, get behind cover if you're outside of close range and start shooting.
  
• Keep shooting until one side or the other is gone.

This works great on Frozen City, but not so great on Alpine. I can't tell you how many times I've seen teams try to win a sniper war from bad cover on lower ground.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 17 April 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[Damocles69]

Ya. I really hate it when people have fun wrong... jerks

[Tezcatli]

Double heat sinks and cooling shots are pretty much making these things possible. You could nerf those. Or nerf the heat on boated weapons. But honestly. A lot of people think that these boating builds are uber and they can just roflstomp easy. But I've seen a PPC stalker just wrecked by faster lights and mediums. Because the pilot didn't know what he was doing. There is no easy win. Well except for that LRM heading shotting thing, but that got hot fixed.

Boating large lasers and PPCs won't go away unless they nerf the heat efficiency on them. The "poptart" thing is popular right now because they only just released the Highlander. That's why it seems so popular. Any competitive game you're going to see people using cheese builds to win.

[DeadlyNerd]

Tezcatli, on 17 April 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Double heat sinks and cooling shots are pretty much making these things possible. You could nerf those. Or nerf the heat on boated weapons. But honestly. A lot of people think that these boating builds are uber and they can just roflstomp easy. But I've seen a PPC stalker just wrecked by faster lights and mediums. Because the pilot didn't know what he was doing. There is no easy win. Well except for that LRM heading shotting thing, but that got hot fixed.

Boating large lasers and PPCs won't go away unless they nerf the heat efficiency on them. The "poptart" thing is popular right now because they only just released the Highlander. That's why it seems so popular. Any competitive game you're going to see people using cheese builds to win.

3 PPC stalkers, triangle/wedge formation. I've seen it done and I've seen lights, that engage them, pop like popcorn.

If a light can't win vs a PPC stalker, he's an atrocious pilot. Anything slower than 100kph is pretty much fried.

[Tezcatli]

DeadlyNerd, on 17 April 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

3 PPC stalkers, triangle/wedge formation. I've seen it done and I've seen lights, that engage them, pop like popcorn.

If a light can't win vs a PPC stalker, he's an atrocious pilot. Anything slower than 100kph is pretty much fried.

So they're a smart, coordinated, team of boaters. Of course that would happen. Can't punish people from teamwork. ;o

Like I said. Unless they nerf heat efficiency on the weapons. Or institute different sized energy hard points. We're going to continue seeing boating.

[Mystere]

DeadlyNerd, on 17 April 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Current word of the month that describes the game "BORING".

Have you ever thought that it's probably about time you considered changing your tactics to compensate?

Fut, on 17 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

It doesn't really seem to be cries for Nerfing of anything actually.
It's more of an observation of the current game; it's hard to deny that there's an above average amount of Sniper Builds in play these days. Which can only lead to one conclusion - something is out of whack.

Of course something is out of whack. The players are out of whack, more specifically, the ones who simply refuse to change, or are simply incapable of changing, their tactics.

Edited by Mystere, 17 April 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[Roland]

Quote

If a light can't win vs a PPC stalker, he's an atrocious pilot. Anything slower than 100kph is pretty much fried.

One one one, with the current fixes to netcode, a PPC stalker should basically obliterate any light mech he sees in a one on one fight.. He only needs to land two shots to kill any light mech, so the only chance the light mech has is if the PPC boat doesn't see him at all until he's inside 90m, and then NEVER goes outside 90m... and prays that none of the PPC boat's friends are even looking.

I don't really see much wrong with this.. but at this point, I'm thinking that if both pilots are skilled, that light mech is gonna get obliterated pretty fast.

[Koreanese]

You can still have a alpha striker as a medium. Welcome to the world of 9 medium lazors

[Noodlesoup]

map design currently heavily lends itself to favoring these builds as there's insufficient cover and/or limited avenues of assault.

[Roland]

Koreanese, on 17 April 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

You can still have a alpha striker as a medium. Welcome to the world of 9 medium lazors

Ya, but since the heat has been nerfed on ML's, they're not quite as competitive as the PPC.

For implicity's sake, let's consider an 8 ML hunchback. Those 8 ML's are generating a whopping 32 heat for 40 damage.

As a comparison point, with PPC's, you 4 PPC's will do the same damage, at twice the range, with the exact same amount of heat... you're just forced to pay the additional (non-trivial) tonnage. But for big mechs, it's a fairly easy tradeoff.

It used to be that Medium Lasers only generated 3 heat, instead of 4.. so that 8 ML build would only be generating 24 heat, which was a lot more manageable on a medium weight chassis. It may be worth reverting those heat values back, now that we have other weapons that can compete with the medium lasers.. same goes for the small lasers.

[Target Rich]

Gee...create High damage long range aiming weapons that have absolutely NO minimum effective range.

Nerf LRM's and SRM's AND create a GOD EMC that makes it impossible to even gain much maintain any missile lock while eliminating indirect fire by REQUIRING the fricking missile mech to have DIRECT eye contact...to gain basicly nerfed damage.

Then introduce a new Assault that is specifically equipped to be a 4erppc/gauss pop tart...

Give lights a terminal lag shield....

Eliminate NARC as a viable system entirely...

and the result is ERPPC/GAUSS/ boats that do as much damage in your fricking face as they do sniper camping....

The decisiveness of this current mech design problem...combined with the increadible overreactions to previous patch problems like the god LRM's,...have created an incredibilly BORING environment...

Heck it is a waste of time to take anything except a ppc/gauss boat period...

100 percent one dimensional play...the antithesis to Battletech....

Its called Call of Duty camping with mech skins...but in COD...at least you have the ability to rush said sniper camps and throw grenades and call down artillery...

In MWO...NONE....I mean NONE of these basic battletech options work at all..

So enjoy the campground...its here to stay a while...

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Yea I have 733C with AC/20,2xMLas,SRM6 and LRM15 and I know how you feel.However even if I have brawler config I have 1.25 W/L and 2.54 KD ratios with this mech.Most looses are from pug games and wins from 4-man.I played only 26 matches yet so it maybe turn worse...but I am still in plus ratios against all odds.
It is always nice to crawl trough tunel in Forest colony/Frozen city and kill those poptarts with 2x alpha strike to their back .
Or wait for them to come closer in Alpine.
Or advance from 2-3 sides on them in Tourmaline...ya know there is always strategy...now it is just borring and easy when you advance in their face.No brawling fun.

[DeadlyNerd]

Mystere, on 17 April 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Have you ever thought that it's probably about time you considered changing your tactics to compensate?

This is not troll flame, this is pure ignorance so I have to reply. With a quote of course! You deserve nothing less!... although nothing more either.

DeadlyNerd, on 17 April 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

And no,I don't die to them, I'm not dumb enough to parade in front of one of them. It's all the other nabs that do.

Now, what is your ingenious tactic for advancing on a group of poptarts covering 270? Do tell Eisenhower.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 17 April 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[NinetyProof]

Oh wait ... another thread about making changes to cure problems that will literally go away once things already promised to be fixed actually get fixed? Did I get that right?

Host State Rewind for Missiles + Missiles getting "un-nerfed" is the counter to most pop-tarting. ie: Send X number of LRM salvos to their faces and they won't be "popping" up as much ... they will be running for better cover.

Of course if they never fix HSR ... and then never fix Missiles ... then yes, we have a problem ... but they will, so until that time, no sense tilting at windmills ...

[DeadlyNerd]

NinetyProof, on 17 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Oh wait ... another thread about making changes to cure problems that will literally go away once things already promised to be fixed actually get fixed? Did I get that right?

Host State Rewind for Missiles + Missiles getting "un-nerfed" is the counter to most pop-tarting. ie: Send X number of LRM salvos to their faces and they won't be "popping" up as much ... they will be running for better cover.

Of course if they never fix HSR ... and then never fix Missiles ... then yes, we have a problem ... but they will, so until that time, no sense tilting at windmills ...

It took them about a month and a half to roll out state rewind for ballistics, after lasers. You're saying we have to wait another month and a half for a game mechanic fix that should counter pop tarting?
Bet you'll be on the first train out of here once they say missiles aint gettin the damage buffed.

[Jess Hazen]

What an absolutely rediculous crybaby thread.

Thanks for that OP.

Your tears sustain me.