32 replies to this topic

[LordDante]

[Kurayami]

single - AC/20
boat - macro UAC/5

[Victor Morson]

SirSmokes, on 17 April 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

AC 20 on it own is a force and yea don't need to boat those for them to really hurt.

I always find this mindset kind of hilarious about boats.

2x AC20s = Not boating in people's mind. There's only 2 of them!

Yet taking a quarter the weight in lasers / PPCs = Horrible! They're boating! Fetch my life preserver, Jenkins, the river of tears is forming!

You do realize even if you restricted every single 'mech to 1 of every weapon type, people would just match the ones that work well together, right? i.e. you'd have Large-Med-Small boats, not 7-Med boats, which would in the end even out to be about the exact same thing. Or Large-LPL/Med-MPL/etc. If you stopped people carrying multiple PPCs they'll just glue any weapons that fire at the same speed on, like Gauss and ACs.

Boating isn't anyone's real problem, it's optimization, and some people refuse to optimize because they want 'mechs to be intentionally nerf'ed like they are on TT.

Edited by Victor Morson, 18 April 2013 - 12:03 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Thontor, on 18 April 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Without boating: AC/20
With boating? Definitely SRMs. 3 SRM6 to be seems way more effective than a single AC/20, around 36 damage with splash damage for less weight? Yes please. Much cooler than lasers too.

2x AC/20 = Not a boat
3x SRM/6 = A boat

This is what I mean by the way people look at this. If a 'mech is entirely geared around a single weapon system (possibly with very limited backups), that's a boat. The number of guns has nothing to do with it, really, because none of the factors about size or weight are taken into a account.

It's silly to get mad about an AC/20's weight in UACs, for example.

I understand the REALLY old school MW2/MW3 players here upset about boating. Before hard points, boats were a serious issue, but mostly because they rendered chassis as nothing but a pretty visual wrapper and also let you do really silly chain fire builds and such (MW2 mostly, there).

I have no problem with a Stalker that can sport 6 ER PPCs as long as every 'mech of the same weight class can't. That's where my issues begin and end with the concept.

Edited by Victor Morson, 18 April 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Jman5]

Without boating, I think the autocannons can bring a lot to the brawler table in the current balance. At the end of the day an AC/20 can do a scary amount of damage at close range.

With boating, I chose lasers. I think with lagshield fixes, they have become quite good at laying down the hurt on all mech types. It's also easier to boat them as opposed to auto cannons which take up a lot of space and tonnage.

I would say SRMs are currently playing a secondary role in brawler builds. They still put damage down, but they seem more useful as tools to soften up a mech. It's possible that Host State Rewind might do wonders for it when it comes online next month.

[Griffinhart]

I have seen a jagermech with 2 AC/20s and one with 2 ac/20s and 4 Medium lasers. Are either of these boats?

[Royalewithcheese]

Griffinhart, on 18 April 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I have seen a jagermech with 2 AC/20s and one with 2 ac/20s and 4 Medium lasers. Are either of these boats?

If they blew up my robot, they're boating. If my robot used them to blow up another robot, they're a balanced loadout.

[Dishevel]

Cel, on 17 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Well you can carry two on a jagger, but then they're made out of paper and you have to be XL to even be able to carry enough ammo as well. It's just not worth it. It's like carrying brawling weapons on a non brawler.

Of course I need a 280XL engine, but My DD carries dual AC20s with 42 round and 2xMLs with 368 armor.
So. it's not exactly made of paper.

[Barghest Whelp]

AC20 and UAC5. Everything else is a waste of slots/tons.

Well, apart from LPL's, they're pretty good. Everything else is just backup weapons.
2xUAC5 + ML = winsauce

3xUAC5 + ML = OP

2xAC20 + ML = OMGWTFBBQPWNLULUSUCK!

Oh, and by the way, if I'm not boating, then AC20 + whatever else I can cram on my mech. Usually ML's and SRM's. AC20 is the best boating and non-boating weapon. Period.

Edited by Barghest Whelp, 18 April 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Victor Morson, on 18 April 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I always find this mindset kind of hilarious about boats.

2x AC20s = Not boating in people's mind. There's only 2 of them!

Yet taking a quarter the weight in lasers / PPCs = Horrible! They're boating! Fetch my life preserver, Jenkins, the river of tears is forming!

You do realize even if you restricted every single 'mech to 1 of every weapon type, people would just match the ones that work well together, right? i.e. you'd have Large-Med-Small boats, not 7-Med boats, which would in the end even out to be about the exact same thing. Or Large-LPL/Med-MPL/etc. If you stopped people carrying multiple PPCs they'll just glue any weapons that fire at the same speed on, like Gauss and ACs.

Boating isn't anyone's real problem, it's optimization, and some people refuse to optimize because they want 'mechs to be intentionally nerf'ed like they are on TT.

Huh? The guy asked what weapons are good on there own with out boating did I miss something? I am not sure what you are on about and I am confused about your post. The dude didn't ask how to build a optimal mech. Someone is lacking reading comprehension. This mindset huh? Dude I run a lot of diffrent mechs some using all the same weapon systems. So I am not sure how you seem to know so much about my play style from one line?

Edited by SirSmokes, 19 April 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[Anton Shiningstar]

My dual AC20 Jager gets the job done. ACs are a fab brawling weapon be it AC10s or 20s! The Jager runs very cool with only 10 Doubles, and what can I say watching Mechs disintegrate leave me all warm and fuzzy!

[Oppresor]

I voted for the LBX10 Scattershot, this is my favourite close range weapon although I can't help thinking that it would be a lot better if it were a LBX40 Scattershot:

[Cel]

Dishevel, on 18 April 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Of course I need a 280XL engine, but My DD carries dual AC20s with 42 round and 2xMLs with 368 armor.
So. it's not exactly made of paper.

Yeah but you're still talking about a jagger, their side torsos are so easy to hit that even if you were aiming for CT, you'll splash or accidentally hit their sides, and those sides don't have as much as the center torso.

A decent build would have you with 40 armor on the front side torsos and 64 on the front center. That's paper considering most heavy hitting alphas do 40-45 damage. You could be one shot from 100% health or nearly.