220 replies to this topic

[jay35]

Fut, on 18 April 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yes!! Bring it on!
This is the attitude that people should have. Part of the fun in Mechwarrior is that it's challenging.
People who don't want R&R back are either lazy, or they only like games when they're easy.

To me, MW:O won't feel like Battletech until R&R is brought back.

MechWarrior isn't Battletech to a fault. If you want Battletech, go play Battletech.

[Fut]

jay35, on 18 April 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

MechWarrior isn't Battletech to a fault. If you want Battletech, go play Battletech.

Stupid argument... Is Mechwarrior not based on Battletech?

[jay35]

Fut, on 18 April 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Stupid argument... Is Mechwarrior not based on Battletech?

"Based on" != "is"

Also, it sounds like what you want is work. Most of us already have a full-time job or two. We're looking for a game, not more work.

[TOGSolid]

Fut, on 18 April 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Stupid argument... Is Mechwarrior not based on Battletech?

Yes it is, and there is no R&R in Battletech so you just torpedoed your own position.

Edited by TOGSolid, 18 April 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[TruePoindexter]

DaPwnageMachine, on 18 April 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

The other team decided to grief you by making your mech suffer extra more damage than it needs to? Get over it, that's the internet.

Well. Nice and rude and ignoring the point of what I was saying. I think we're done here.

[DaPwnageMachine]

TOGSolid, on 18 April 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

You have yet to list any of them.

I've posted many ideas. You only chose to quote the ones you want to nitpick. If ur gonna quote a post, quote the whole thing. That's what bad community forum warriors do. Thanks for your positive posting tho, forum troll lol

TruePoindexter, on 18 April 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Well. Nice and rude and ignoring the point of what I was saying. I think we're done here.

Well it's the truth dude. There's going to be griefing in every game, every smallest way possible by internet trolls. What do you want me to say to you? Oh, you're totally right let's not implement an idea because someone will find a way to grief you in it and make the whole idea bad. Sorry, but no thanks. You gotta have some stomach dude. Have I been disarmed completely just cuz the other team wanted me to pay hella money to repair when R&R was implemented? Yes. Does it bother me as much as bothered you? Absolutely not.

Edited by DaPwnageMachine, 18 April 2013 - 11:34 AM.

[TOGSolid]

TruePoindexter, on 18 April 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Well. Nice and rude and ignoring the point of what I was saying. I think we're done here.

Yeah, that's basically what happens in every R&R thread. The supporters always end up resorting to rude comments and vague rants about "how there's so much that could be done to make R&R work."

[Fut]

TOGSolid, on 18 April 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Yes it is, and there is no R&R in Battletech so you just torpedoed your own position.

Rules for repairs and replacements are in Strategic Operations. It doesn't have anything about costs, other than time it takes to repair/replace something. Prices of given components are in the books that have construction rules: TechManual, Tactical Operations and Strategic Operations.

TOGSolid, on 18 April 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

That said, a game can be based on something without being a perfect clone of it just like how movies take liberties when adapting books.

True.
But what do you hear all the time?
"THE BOOK WAS BETTER!"

[Mechteric]

Just ask for a Hardcore mode where R&R exists, I think its fair to assume that new players shouldn't be burdened by it

[Juree Riggd]

If repair and rearm were re-implemented, it should be balanced so that you could never lose money on a match. Griefers would immediately seek out those on their team with the most expensive builds and TK them just to make them lose money. R&R fees however could prevent people from using their expensive builds/weapons in normal gameplay if they were trying to earn enough money for a new mech or weapon.

Even if it were re-implemented in such a way, I don't see what it would balance. It'd only prevent broke people from playing their favorite builds because they don't have the money to pay for the R&R.

[Vrekgar]

DaPwnageMachine, on 18 April 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Bring it back in a way that can't be abused. Rewards are now incentives based on performance instead of just win or loss, so it actually wouldn't be viable to make money by trial suiciding. .

Reincrease the heat on energy weapons massively so that boating actually takes more skill than just having mastered coolrun with +18 double heat sinks.

Gauss boats, SRM boats, and LRM boats? Make refilling ammo extra expensive to the point where you would actually make it costly to take one just like how it was costly to take an XL engine or an Atlas.

Want more medium mechs? Make repairing heavy mechs and assault mechs so costly to repair that you would want a light or medium in your mechbay to make money off of. Introduce a "skill" bonus in cbills earned based on kills that would be greater for lights and mediums while having a smaller bonus or heavies and assaults. Of course, such a bonus should not be introduced until after collisions are brought back correctly. Bring skill back to light mechs with collisions.

There you go, instant balance for all weapons that everyone is crying OP about every patch. I don't bout you guys, but the game was so much more fun and deep when the economy was in place despite it's massive exploit that ruined it. With the economy gone, I have no interest in this game with nothing to play for and I think a lot of players are feeling hte same way. I think we're in a much better position now to prevent that trial run suiciding exploit and bring this game back to the way it was supposed to be.

[Zeroskills]

Philadelphia Collins, on 18 April 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

source

I found the source: Ask the Devs 31.



2/8/2013 Edit: from Ask the Devs 31
blinkin - Will repair and rearm ever come back? if not please explain the reasoning behind removing it.
A: No plans to bring back RNR. RNR was removed to create a balanced economy. In the end it created more problems than solved, and was essentially a tax. The system was prone to abuse by farmers and active players. The decision was made to protect the integrity of the game at the cost of removing a feature most people did not use (based on telemetry).


Too bad it completely contradicts what he said.

Edited by Zeroskills, 18 April 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[TOGSolid]

DaPwnageMachine, on 18 April 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

I've posted many ideas. You only chose to quote the ones you want to nitpick. If ur gonna quote a post, quote the whole thing. That's what bad community forum warriors do. Thanks for your positive posting tho, forum troll lol

I've read your ideas and they're all bad. There is nothing to debate here because everything you've said would only serve to make the inherent problems with R&R systems even worse. You have yet to provide us with an R&R system that avoids the pitfalls of the old one. Until you do then you have nothing productive to say.

Fut, on 18 April 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Rules for repairs and replacements are in Strategic Operations. It doesn't have anything about costs, other than time it takes to repair/replace something. Prices of given components are in the books that have construction rules: TechManual, Tactical Operations and Strategic Operations.



True.
But what do you hear all the time?
"THE BOOK WAS BETTER!"

And those only ever matter if you're playing a non-stop campaign which we aren't. The argument could come up in CW that merc corps as a whole could have some sort of general repair bay costs for protracted campaigns into enemy territory and THEN R&R would be a very interesting mechanic. Having to maintain a positive cash flow during a major assault to ensure you can keep fielding an army sounds like a lot of fun to me, but then, I played Eve Online for six years and that's besides the point.
For random lulzy pug matches though? Pffft, you're only screwing over new guys and less skilled players with it. Besides, if you want to run with the TT argument this would be like saying that you have to pay money between random matches at the game store if you want your mechs to all be ok because **** you that's why.

Edited by TOGSolid, 18 April 2013 - 11:41 AM.

[jay35]

Juree Riggd, on 18 April 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

If repair and rearm were re-implemented, it should be balanced so that you could never lose money on a match. Griefers would immediately seek out those on their team with the most expensive builds and TK them just to make them lose money. R&R fees however could prevent people from using their expensive builds/weapons in normal gameplay if they were trying to earn enough money for a new mech or weapon.

Even if it were re-implemented in such a way, I don't see what it would balance. It'd only prevent broke people from playing their favorite builds because they don't have the money to pay for the R&R.

And that's just it. For everyone who doesn't have a summer vacation or the ability to play for hours every day, all it serves to do is prevent them from running the build and mech they want to when they actually have time to play, and unnecessarily lengthens the grind on future content. For a game with so much promise and opportunity to create fun and enticing gameplay through combat and metagame elements, to resort to faux-balancing with economics instead of actually balancing things, especially when they're pretty close to having things well balanced for the most part, would be a shame. And it would crush the playerbase, particularly among their core crowd of die-hard fans which are working adults, as well as the uptake among new players.

Edited by jay35, 18 April 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[Zerberus]

Either do it right, or don`t do it at all, R+R is a halfassed solution that needs to stay away or be taken to it's logical conclusion, the "immersion" that so many of the R+R fans harp on.

You want "immersion" and "realism"? Ok. Wipe EVERYONE`s cbills and loose equipment depots clean at the start of CW to level the field. Out of money? Your problem, Sell your mech like so many f2p peolple had to while the system was still here. What, nothing left to pilot? oooh, poor baby... maybe you should become a tech

"realistic" R+R implementation for "optimized immersion".

Mech survives conflict:

Normal R+R, all destroyed components must be replaced at cost. Meck locked for repairs for 24h

Destruction of mech in battle:

Round won? R+R, every lost component must be opurchased back at full price, missing limbs must be purchased back at partial chassis costs equivalent to their % of overall tonnage. Mech out of commission for a week due to repair efforts.
Round lost? Mech permanently deleted from your bay, because the other team salvaged it. mech`s c-bill value after component destruction divided evenly amongst other team.

What? But you paid RL money for it and spent another 5$ making it look cool? Too bad... be happy ejections aren`t implemented yet, otherwise we`d be defaulting to:

HS kill, cockpit or Life support destroyed.

Mech destroyed, pilot dead, account permanently locked.

"But but but I spent a year beta testing this game and /or paid a founders fee?"

"And? You wanted realism and immersion at the proven cost of ******* up the game beyond all recognition for new players. And that`s what you got. Deal with it"

--------------------------

And btw, you can only play in one given system per week, because jumping takes time.

Can only drop in a maximum of 2 rounds a day becasue R+R takes time as does your insertion and extraction.

Jumps to the next ysytem because you`re bored cost money and take 24h to complete.

6h /day minimum must be dedicated to sleep or suffer a cumulative to hit penalty. this must be manually set by the player. For every day w/o sleep, cumulative 15% chance of falling asleep on the battlefield.

If you want me to list more ways that the same "immersion" and realism" constantly used to justify R+R would totally **** up the game for just about everybody, just let me know.

Edited by Zerberus, 18 April 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[Und3rSc0re]

World of tanks has a successful repair rearm system why cant mwo have it?

[Otto Cannon]

NO.

[Zolaz]

No matter the system someone will game it. Whatever the economy someone will figure out the best way to make cbills.

[Suprentus]

If R&R is reintroduced, it shouldn't be done in an attempt to balance. It should just make the universe feel more real. I know it won't actually lead to any game changers, but my ideas for R&R are:

• Don't base it on how expensive your equipment is; just make it a fairly cheap flat rate. Maybe even have some base in tonnage alone.
  
• Have an option to R&R it for free, and just make the chassis unavailable for one match. Paying for R&R would essentially just be a rush R&R.

I don't think that goes overboard at all. As someone mentioned earlier, you should never lose money from a match, and I agree with that.

[Fut]

TOGSolid, on 18 April 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

I've read your ideas and they're all bad. There is nothing to debate here because everything you've said would only serve to make the inherent problems with R&R systems even worse. You have yet to provide us with an R&R system that avoids the pitfalls of the old one. Until you do then you have nothing productive to say.

And those only ever matter if you're playing a non-stop campaign which we aren't. The argument could come up in CW that merc corps as a whole could have some sort of general repair bay costs for protracted campaigns into enemy territory and THEN R&R would be a very interesting mechanic. For random lulzy pug matches though? Pffft, you're only screwing over new guys and less skilled players with it. Besides, if you want to run with the TT argument this would be like saying that you have to pay money between random matches at the game store if you want your mechs to all be ok just because **** you that's why.

Not sure about you, or anybody else for that matter, but when I think about MW:O in it's entirety I think of Community Warfare.
What we have right now isn't what MW:O is supposed to be, the game is supposed to be a perpetual galaxy at war - not just 1 off battles with random people for random reasons.

With R&R in play, the entire game will be much more how the BT Universe is supposed to be - you know, a Universe where not everybody can magically drop in a fully kitted-out Atlas.

I'm not trying to say that I have all the answers here, because I don't. I don't know how R&R can be tweaked to make things level and fair. But I do know that it's a great idea to get people to stop dropping in extremely expensive Mechs every single drop.

I want to see a game where you come across an Atlas and you actually feel a sense of danger from it.
Right now you see 4 in a match - they're common place.