96 replies to this topic

[Syllogy]

Merky Merc, on 19 April 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

Then enlighten me oh wizened one. I didn't realize they had released all details concerning CW and Clans.

PGI hasn't, but you can read up on the shortcomings of Clan Tech.

For example: No TAG, no Area of Effect Weapons, All mechs run XL Engines, you cannot change Engine Size, Armor or Structure, their "advanced" weaponry might be lighter, take up less space, and/or do more damage, but it also runs hotter.

There are many more than this, young padawan. Do some reading.

Edited by Syllogy, 19 April 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[Conraire]

Joker Two, on 19 April 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

Allowing IS 'Mechs to run Clantech with no matchmaking consideration of the power of Clantech will simply create a giant armsrace, with casual gamers and new players suffering. And remember, the Inner Sphere didn't even begin to successfully reverse-engineer Clan weapons into their advanced IS counterparts for years, much less mass-produce Clantech (which they never really become able to do on their own).

Player forces achieve an "A" Equipment rating (100% Advanced Inner Sphere tech) very quickly in this game, most armies did not reach this standard until the Republic Era, if even then.

Only a couple years really, 3051 and 3052, mostly thanks to the Draconis Combine.......The only state able to defeat the clans, twice, other than Comstar at Tukayyid(sp?)

[Viper69]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

All mechs run XL Engines, you cannot change Engine Size, Armor or Structure,

Yes young padawan, but their XLs need to lose 2 torsos to be taken out. So left and right or just center core it. And I am pretty sure its only Omni Mechs that cannot change their engines and armor, their battle mechs can.

Also those hotter beam weapons, sure they are hot but when you have a medium laser that is hitting you at the range your Large laser is hitting him at for the same damage and lighter tonnage, what then? Oh, their double heat sinks only take two slots so in the space you can fit 3 DHs they can fit 4 and that means they can fit DHS in the legs.

The spin doctors can tell you all the negatives they want about clan tech but on paper (if paper is any high water mark) clan tech was the common denominator of any competitive team in any mechwarrior game that had any multiplayer ability at all, period end of story.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

qki, on 19 April 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

what the hell are you smoking son? A clan ERPPC that has better range, weighs 6 tons and does 150% of IS ERPPC damage available for MC only?

So you actually want only the paying players to be even remotely able to win?

qki, on 19 April 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

what the hell are you smoking son? A clan ERPPC that has better range, weighs 6 tons and does 150% of IS ERPPC damage available for MC only?

So you actually want only the paying players to be even remotely able to win?

that...
Yea, that was a troll, son.
One you walked full on straight into

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

You have a lot of research to do on how Community Warfare works, and the array of downsides to Clans and Clan Tech.

theyve GIVEN us this info? link it please
All I ever see when theyr4e asked here is "we dont want to get into clan stuff yet" like in the ask the devs

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 19 April 2013 - 07:33 PM.

[Syllogy]

Viper69, on 19 April 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Yes young padawan, but their XLs need to lose 2 torsos to be taken out. So left and right or just center core it. And I am pretty sure its only Omni Mechs that cannot change their engines and armor, their battle mechs can.

Also those hotter beam weapons, sure they are hot but when you have a medium laser that is hitting you at the range your Large laser is hitting him at for the same damage and lighter tonnage, what then? Oh, their double heat sinks only take two slots so in the space you can fit 3 DHs they can fit 4 and that means they can fit DHS in the legs.

The spin doctors can tell you all the negatives they want about clan tech but on paper (if paper is any high water mark) clan tech was the common denominator of any competitive team in any mechwarrior game that had any multiplayer ability at all, period end of story.

Please, point out which Clan Mechs are not Omnimechs.

[Merky Merc]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

PGI hasn't, but you can read up on the shortcomings of Clan Tech.

For example: No TAG, no Area of Effect Weapons, All mechs run XL Engines, you cannot change Engine Size, Armor or Structure, their "advanced" weaponry might be lighter, take up less space, and/or do more damage, but it also runs hotter.

I am aware of these things. An 86 kph 75 ton mech with 4 ssrm6s 4ERLLs and w/e doesn't sound like it's having too many "downsides" to me.

Plus super light ballistics? Let me have em thanks.

Edited by Merky Merc, 19 April 2013 - 07:35 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

PGI hasn't, but you can read up on the shortcomings of Clan Tech.

For example: No TAG, no Area of Effect Weapons, All mechs run XL Engines, you cannot change Engine Size, Armor or Structure, their "advanced" weaponry might be lighter, take up less space, and/or do more damage, but it also runs hotter.

There are many more than this, young padawan. Do some reading.

ah, theres your problem, youre running on TT info not PGI info as there isnt any yet. IE youre assuming

[Syllogy]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 19 April 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

ah, theres your problem, youre running on TT info not PGI info as there isnt any yet. IE youre assuming

And you think that PGI won't use, and even exaggerate these rules to balance out reasons not to run to the Clans at release?

[FupDup]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

...but it also runs hotter.

No it doesn't. Clan weapons generate identical heat, with the exception of the UAC/10 (which is 1 point of less heat for Clanners). You're thinking of standard IS lasers versus Clan ER lasers, but that isn't a valid comparison because standard laser =/= ER laser of the same class.

Try a Clan ER Medium Laser versus a standard IS Large Laser, that is a real comparison.

Edited by FupDup, 19 April 2013 - 07:38 PM.

[Viper69]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Please, point out which Clan Mechs are not Omnimechs.

For starters the Hunchback 2C.
Read this.
OmniMechs are not fully modular. An OmniMech's structural components: its engine, internal structure, armor and any equipment installed on the base chassis of OmniMech are "hard-wired" and cannot be modified outside of a total redesign of the 'Mech. While customization of these components is theoretically possible in the field, it is avoided as it hard-wires all the 'Mechs components and effectively transforms it from a OmniMech into a standard BattleMech."

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/OmniMech

So any omnii mech that is structurally changed turns it into a battle mech because it loses its omni ability.

Edited by Viper69, 19 April 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

And you think that PGI won't use, and even exaggerate these rules to balance out reasons not to run to the Clans at release?

given that theyre saying six months plus AFTER release, I think theyre gonna make it up as they go along. So, yes. Youre saying theres all this info out there that likely wont apply to this game at all.
LOOK at this game then look at TT and tell me the dissimilarities arent there

[Soy]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 19 April 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

I Think they should sell clan tech for MC only.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Viper69, on 19 April 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

For starters the Hunchback 2C.

arent all the IICs battlemechs not Omnis?

[Tennex]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

Uh... no?

Last time the devs said anything about mixing Clan Tech and IS Tech the answer was something along the lines of "No, we expect that players will not be able to equip Clan Tech on IS Mechs."

that would make the 20+ IS mechs they put into the game completely useless. they would never do that.

Edited by Tennex, 19 April 2013 - 07:40 PM.

[Syllogy]

Viper69, on 19 April 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

For starters the Hunchback 2C.

"the assignment of a Hunchback IIC was essentially a death sentence. Warriors given this machine were not expected to survive their next battle."

[FupDup]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

"the assignment of a Hunchback IIC was essentially a death sentence. Warriors given this machine were not expected to survive their next battle."

That's the stock variant. Since it's not an omni it could be min-maxed to the sky in MWO with more armor and speed (downgrade the UAC20's to UAC10 or something to get the tonnage).

Edited by FupDup, 19 April 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[Merky Merc]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 19 April 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

arent all the IICs battlemechs not Omnis?

There are quite a few it seems. But Syllogy would know this due to his volumes of research conducted on Clan tech properties.

[Viper69]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 19 April 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

arent all the IICs battlemechs not Omnis?

Nope, they are standard battlemech outfitted with clan tech, their structure is still a battle mech.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

"the assignment of a Hunchback IIC was essentially a death sentence. Warriors given this machine were not expected to survive their next battle."

you said name them. not "name GOOD mechs..."

[Viper69]

Syllogy, on 19 April 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

"the assignment of a Hunchback IIC was essentially a death sentence. Warriors given this machine were not expected to survive their next battle."

What does its role have to do with it not being an omni mech?