85 replies to this topic

[Agent of Change]

Thundercles, on 20 April 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Said many things in many posts, not the least of which accusing my of abusing a mechanic.

Allow me to respond in a literally more sober manner:

Yes I did, am, and plan to continue to cap race all weekend. I do this for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the "people who just wanna fight" is funny to me, we'll get back to that. Though one of the problems is that the game has shifted to an undeniable meta of high alpha PPC builds usually on really slow mechs, I do not like this meta. I find this meta boring.

When you run into a meta you have two choices Work within it OR try to break the meta so it shifts, (that is how meta's evolve BTW). When you run into a meta you DON'T like you have one option do your damndest to break it. That is my plan.

I consider the following results in any combination victory:

• Those heavy nasty high alpha mechs defend their base until they are fairly sure they won't be capped.
  
• Players respond to a base cap by trying to return and they will because they didn't string them selves so far it's not possible.
  
• Players start dropping in more balanced drops have mechs that can prevent capping.
  
• Teams actually scout using their eyballs to see an approachign cap a ttempt and shift to intercept it
  
• People don't complain when they get out maneuvered and capped because they didn't do any of the above
  
• I cannot cap because people are doing the above

More than that i see some outcomes of my actions... and believe me they are intentional. PGI decided to have an event that encourages people to drop in assault mechs in mass quantities in the middle of a meta that already does that and a great many people are tired of seeing nothing but PPC's on Assault mechs.


I hear you say "i Play what's effective to win" I agree sadly that seems to be very effective right now, but guess what, So is running a pack of max speed lights and capping... It's very very effective. If you are ok with one existing and not the other you are a hypocrite. I dislike one over the other but the difference is that my response is to declare loudly my intentions and then try to shift the meta not Whine about it and try to have the other removed from the game.

Now the timing here is important with afforementioned event. So yeah I'd do this anyway because of the meta but because a fast cap prevents the assault mechs from getting a decent score from that match (they still get a win from my side though) people will feel it more keenly and maybe just maybe start defending, or opening their eyes and stop just marching to predetermined fire lines to get their brawl/snipe on. I'm not protesting events I'm protesting poor, boring play encouraged by the current community meta.

I've got several groups supporting me at this point, I'm having a whole lot of fun, so I'd advise your teams to defend your caps.

see you out there.

This Post brought to you by
The Post Lerian Jihad
"We post Better than You."

Edited by Agent of Change, 20 April 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Just 4 words... Defend Your Damn Base.

[Alois Hammer]

CharlesBronson, on 20 April 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Why is one light mech capable of winning an entire match by himself then?

Because "defend our base" is a concept far above the grasp of the game's intended 3rd person view coolant-flushing audience?

-ba-dum-tish!-

[Mal]

Daikyu Kell, on 19 April 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Another match and another cap race, one team goes one way the other goes the other and never a shot is fired, BORING BORING BORING. I come here to fight, to pit my skills against the cream of mechwarriors but no, over and over again we are subject to those who just want to cap the base and be done.This is mechWARRIOR not mechcap

Devs, PLEASE either take the cap out of the assault mode or make a cap the flag mode. Yes i'm having a ***** but there are those who agree, just have to watch the ingame chat.

If you know the other team is going to go to your base, and you want to make sure you get a fight. It's pretty easy... go where they're going.. defend your base.

[Alois Hammer]

Roadbeer, on 20 April 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

The fact that it's constructed out of things not normally found in nature.

I bet that stuff's even got trace amounts of dihydrogen monoxide in it.

[Roadbeer]

Alois Hammer, on 20 April 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

I bet that stuff's even got trace amounts of dihydrogen monoxide in it.

Cute, "Wonder" how many people will pick up on that?

[Agent of Change]

Roadbeer, on 20 April 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Cute, "Wonder" how many people will pick up on that?

few ever do

[AegisKay]

Imagine 15 mins of walking around a map looking for the other team. I think that's worse than just ending it there and then with a cap race.

[Keifomofutu]

Poll is missing an option. Scale cap time by size of map. Speed caps aren't a big problem on river city or forest. But on a map the size of tourmaline or alpine if the lights avoid the fight and go to cap its a guaranteed loss. And no you can't simply camp in your base on certain maps you'd be putting yourself at a wild disadvantage by doing that. So much longer cap time on the huge maps.

[shabowie]

Keifomofutu, on 20 April 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Poll is missing an option. Scale cap time by size of map. Speed caps aren't a big problem on river city or forest. But on a map the size of tourmaline or alpine if the lights avoid the fight and go to cap its a guaranteed loss. And no you can't simply camp in your base on certain maps you'd be putting yourself at a wild disadvantage by doing that. So much longer cap time on the huge maps.

Yep. That's what I meant by current mechanics being awful. Some kind of time scaling would be great. Or targets that need to be destroyed, the stand in the square for a few seconds thing is just not fun and not good gameplay. Although multiple seperate caps like in Conquest I do find fun and it's a similar situation. Difference being I guess that multiple caps splits up the action so there isn't a giant blob effect as in Assault.

Edited by shabowie, 20 April 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Jestun]

Wizard Steve, on 19 April 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

A thousand times this.

Why turn the game mode into "hunt-the-last-mech" where you have to chase an ECM light or find the powered down enemy mech?

[Thundercles]

Agent of Change, on 20 April 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Allow me to respond in a literally more sober manner:

Yes I did, am, and plan to continue to cap race all weekend. I do this for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the "people who just wanna fight" is funny to me, we'll get back to that. Though one of the problems is that the game has shifted to an undeniable meta of high alpha PPC builds usually on really slow mechs, I do not like this meta. I find this meta boring.

When you run into a meta you have two choices Work within it OR try to break the meta so it shifts, (that is how meta's evolve BTW). When you run into a meta you DON'T like you have one option do your damndest to break it. That is my plan.

I consider the following results in any combination victory:

• Those heavy nasty high alpha mechs defend their base until they are fairly sure they won't be capped.
  
• Players respond to a base cap by trying to return and they will because they didn't string them selves so far it's not possible.
  
• Players start dropping in more balanced drops have mechs that can prevent capping.
  
• Teams actually scout using their eyballs to see an approachign cap a ttempt and shift to intercept it
  
• People don't complain when they get out maneuvered and capped because they didn't do any of the above
  
• I cannot cap because people are doing the above

More than that i see some outcomes of my actions... and believe me they are intentional. PGI decided to have an event that encourages people to drop in assault mechs in mass quantities in the middle of a meta that already does that and a great many people are tired of seeing nothing but PPC's on Assault mechs.




I hear you say "i Play what's effective to win" I agree sadly that seems to be very effective right now, but guess what, So is running a pack of max speed lights and capping... It's very very effective. If you are ok with one existing and not the other you are a hypocrite. I dislike one over the other but the difference is that my response is to declare loudly my intentions and then try to shift the meta not Whine about it and try to have the other removed from the game.

Now the timing here is important with afforementioned event. So yeah I'd do this anyway because of the meta but because a fast cap prevents the assault mechs from getting a decent score from that match (they still get a win from my side though) people will feel it more keenly and maybe just maybe start defending, or opening their eyes and stop just marching to predetermined fire lines to get their brawl/snipe on. I'm not protesting events I'm protesting poor, boring play encouraged by the current community meta.

I've got several groups supporting me at this point, I'm having a whole lot of fun, so I'd advise your teams to defend your caps.

see you out there.

This Post brought to you by
The Post Lerian Jihad
"We post Better than You."

For the absolute last time: Capping, as a concept, is fine. CURRENT PARAMETERS for capping would greatly benefit from being tweaked.

EDIT: In response to the remark about "I play what it takes to win" - Other than my founder's Atlas, the biggest thing I own is an Awesome. I tried out a few LL/LPL builds, and even a hilarious SRM pinata build. (I'm usually the pinata.) I even tried out a few Phract builds, but never settled on anything that I liked. Certainly nothing with jump jets. I've pretty much fallen in love with the Spider - so you can call me a lot of things, but for the love of god don't call me "combat effective" or a PPC boater.

For the record, I'm usually one of the first people back on base to defend. Sometimes it goes well, sometimes it doesn't. In fact, one of the times it did work out was the only game I can recall ever bumping into you in - a fracas on River City (I think it was night) where my team was so abominably slow at forming up and moving out they'd barely cleared the upper base when 3/4 of your team swept in from the other direction.

Current capping isn't cerebral, and it isn't compelling. I can set my watch by the number of matches I RTB in my spider just to bump into a pair of 3Ls, or a 3L paired with something else. Cap rushing is currently the low-hanging fruit of victory conditions, no better and no worse than the high alpha meta or the ECM/streak meta. Have your fill.

Edited by Thundercles, 20 April 2013 - 01:11 PM.

[Alois Hammer]

Jestun, on 20 April 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Why turn the game mode into "hunt-the-last-mech" where you have to chase an ECM light or find the powered down enemy mech?

Because of all us weenies having fun wrong.

[Zervziel]

Wizard Steve, on 19 April 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

*sniff* Such eloquence cannot be matched! You, my good man, are a poet!

[Wintersdark]

Agent of Change, on 19 April 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

that;'s true but the current assault mech, sniper, poptart meta is awful.

so yeah we cap, and will continue to cap, and will continue to recruit people to cap exclusively.

If the current meta can stop us they are welcome to try but honestly most hilarious thing i've seen is 15+ people sync dropping in the fastest mechs they own with the specific purpose of capping as quickly as possible to prevent any assault mechs from getting a decent score.

hilarious!

I have to admit, I have myself dropped in a few matches in my Spider with the sole intent of doing an early cap to screw the *zounds* of Assault mechs out of lots of damage done.

Mostly, because while I like Assaults as much as the next guy, the game is just too damn full of them right now, and it's getting annoying.

[Wintersdark]

Thundercles, on 20 April 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Thank goodness PGI doesn't have an "Abuse of Game Mechanics" policy like some other gaming companies. Trolling is one thing, but trolling a sanctioned game event is quite another. No, I'm not participating in the Assault tourney, so it's not a sour grapes thing. It's the attitude that its ok to abuse cap mechanics at the expense of the gameplay of others. A very prevalent attitude, it seems, so there's no use arguing about it I suppose. Neither side will be swayed.

It's not an abuse of game mechanics to cap early. Seriously, I'm far more a fan of fighting overall, but I'm getting tired of SniperWars, so I'm taking a different approach. It's one the opposing team can defend against, or react to, if they feel so inclined.

But an early cap? Like it or not, it's a stated win condition for the battle. It's NOT an abuse, even if you hate it.

[Merky Merc]

PhoenixFire55, on 20 April 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Just 4 words... Defend Your Damn Base.

Shhhhh, I'm enjoying capping bases while chat fills with the gnashing of teeth from the angered PPC boats.

And I'm enjoying the free kills when mediums come back to investigate.

[SilentSooYun]

Alois Hammer, on 20 April 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

I bet that stuff's even got trace amounts of dihydrogen monoxide in it.

I hear that stuff can be dangerous in large quantities.

[Particle Man]

What an original and refreshing thread!



no.

[Alois Hammer]

Thundercles, on 20 April 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

For the absolute last time: Capping, as a concept, is fine. CURRENT PARAMETERS for capping would greatly benefit from being tweaked.

The only things that would benefit from such a tweak are the egos of all the mincing Nancies who think their "mad skillz" aren't being showcased properly.

Can't handle the possibility of being capped, demand Team Deathmatch- but stop being such pretenders and acting like it's the game's fault you suck at Assault mode.