27 replies to this topic

[Nainko]

This is how matches end for every assault that is no PPC build.



PGI, i despreatly begging you to take some action on this PPC.

Mechwarrior WAS a grat Taktik game, now its a stupid 3d action shooter. Five of my mates, who played since closed beta stopped already.

You are ruining the game, noone plays Rokets any more, only Gaus and some Large Laser Boats survived the PPC buffs. Increadsed projectile speed, decreased heat....whats next? less in tonnage maybe ?

I really hope you implement some heat demage to a mech in overheat. And you increase the PPC heat again. There is a good reason WHY it is so high in battletech universe!

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

I agree with you and commend for actually seeing what's happening to this game. I raised a "Nerf PPC" post recently and was actually quite surprised at the number of players that had no issue with them right now. They've just become easier and easier to use and the learning curve has dropped off immensely. Let's look at how they've changed: Speed buff from 1200 to 2000 (very significant). Heat buff from 9 to 8 (justified) and from 13 to 11 for the erppc (justified) because they ballzed the heat system up to begin with. I'm pretty sure there was a c/d buff in there somewhere as well but can't remember the figures and now slower pings r on par with fast pings (in theory this should be fair, but overall the weapon is now OP). When I can run around in my spider 5D at 150.5 kph and hit another fast mover repeatedly with my ERPPC I know something is broken.

[Zaptruder]

Oh PPCs. Well... at least they're as threatening in this game as they are in the canon.

[MrTarget]

not more then 3 months ago people were moaning about PPC's not doing enough damage produce too much heat blah blah blah moan moan... so now they have done what people want its wrong!!!!

What is wrong with you people!!!

[Hauser]

MrTarget, on 20 April 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

not more then 3 months ago people were moaning about PPC's not doing enough damage produce too much heat blah blah blah moan moan... so now they have done what people want its wrong!!!!

What is wrong with you people!!!

Host state rewind has been implemented making it easier to actually hit. The game has changed.

Are you unable to recognize this? What is wrong with you?

[Jukebox1986]

[MrTarget]

Hauser, on 20 April 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

Host state rewind has been implemented making it easier to actually hit. The game has changed.

Are you unable to recognize this? What is wrong with you?

I am gravy, I can kill PPC builds with ease.

Not everyone shares your views, it's funny because it turns out we are all different.

http://mwomercs.com/...97#entry2264597

Edited by MrTarget, 20 April 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[Evengar Dragonis]

I propose to introduce a pilot health.
Damage to the health of the pilot to rely on the heating by the rules of a board game.
Then overheated shooters must become less.

Jumping snipers will be harder to hit the target, if you enter the shaking of the jump.

Edited by Leonid, 20 April 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

nerf the Weapons of the Enemy ,buff my Weapons ...blablabla ...learn to counter the Enemys weapons,Tactics, Playstyles

Here no dices tu rescue you ech , no dice aiming for you ...here ist fast instinktive reaction& action the Part for the Victory with your TEAM ! you not longer the lonesome P&P TT Player , you not have 5 Minutes times to circle your torso to the Enemy and walking 30m

[GumbyC2C]

PPCs are supposed to be both common and effective. Most of the best mechs in TT have one and several have two. The Awesome even has three and that's how it got it's name. In fact, in the TR 3025, it says the only answer for an Awesome is another Awesome. So PPCs should be very good.

[HarmAssassin]

Just finished a match. On my team, there were 13 PPCs/ERPPCs, 11 ER or Large Lasers, 2 Gauss Rifles, more AC's than I was able to quickly count, and not a single Medium Laser anywhere on the team.

We had:
AC2's
AC5's,
Large Lasers (lots)
ER Large Lasers (few)
PPCs (lots)
ERPPCs (lots)

Not present, were medium lasers, LRMS, SRMs.

I think we only had 3 mechs on our team that didn't have a PPC of some sort.

Medium lasers are quickly going extinct due to the lower heat / high damage and range of PPCs, ERPPCs, Large Lasers, and ER Large Lasers. And since the missile nerf, it is rare to even see a missile (and if you do, so what just ignore them).

Return the larger energy weapons to their previous, higher heat values, and please institute REAL penalties for overheating.

Oh, and for the record - I played Table Top from its first edition thru several revisions and expansions - with the exception of the Awesome, you never saw more than 2 large lasers or PPCs on a single mech.... ever. The consequences for overheating were just too great.

But in MWO, overheating is a momentary inconvenience nothing more (assuming you don't just simply override or use a coolant flush).This has led to 6 PPC or 6 large laser mechs, with countless more mounting at least 3.

After LRMs and SRMs were nerfed to uselessness, I created a 4 Large Laser, 1 ER Large Laser Stalker that is incredibly effective. I've played almost nothing but ever since, and likely won't stop until this gets fixed. All of my other mechs have at least 2 SRM6's that are now completely worthless. Some of my mechs lost half their damage potential when they nerfed missiles to heck.... so now I've joined the crowd and boat Large Lasers just to keep my K:D ratio where it is until this game gets balanced.

Edited by HarmAssassin, 20 April 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Bryan said PGI is happy with the heat. They must be going for the "hold my hand, I suck," crowd

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

That's the problem with PGI..always looking at a single component. No vision.

[FuzzyLog1c]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 20 April 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Bryan said PGI is happy with the heat. They must be going for the "hold my hand, I suck," crowd

Hold on a second there. We just raked PGI over the coals (not more than a month ago) for making balance decisions based on the people that boat SRMs and LRMs--ruining those weapons for people that only want one or two. I doubt you want PGI to make that mistake again.

Based on hundreds of hours playing MW2, MW3, and MW4, I feel that the heat that MWO PPCs produce is about the same. Nobody ever complained about PPCs being unbalanced in older games because few mechs had the room to equip more than one or two (which is why the Awesome served a niche role as a PPC sniper). If you tried to equip more, you could, but you'd run out of space to add enough heat sinks.

In other words, I agree with Bryan's statement--strictly speaking. As best I can tell, the correct balance change to make, right now, is to increase the number of critical slots that PPCs consume by one or two. And make overheating your mech damage internals at a rate proportional to the heat overage.

Edited by FuzzyLog1c, 20 April 2013 - 04:27 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

The idea of overheating causing damage to weapons is definitely a good idea. It also makes sense of the PPC and Gauss are particularly sensitive to damage.

[The Original Prankster]

I wholeheartedly agree with the original post, PPCs are currently ridiculous. Many matches are decided with a few easy-to-hit, high damage, endless ammo PPC shots, even before they really start. Half the mechs in a match are often running pure PPC builds, maybe supplemented by a single gauss rifle, The simplest indication if a weapon is overpowered is to check statistics on how many people are running them. If the amount of a weapon being used is disproportional to all other weapons, it's a pretty safe bet that that weapon is so much better than the rest that it gives players an advantage.

My suggestion would be either doing something to the game mechanics, or simply changing the impulse times or speeds of PPCs making them harder to hit. It's just idiotic having a single weapon that's pinpoint, high damage, long range, doesn't need ammo, is relatively lightweight compared to other LR weapons, doesn't take many slots (leaving room for heatsinks...), can be fit on almost any mech and is almost as efficient on heat as a small laser. So where's the downside? Really, I'm asking.

One last note... As far as I can remember, on the tabletop version mechs could close in on the PPC mechs in 2-4 turns (read: shots). That's not the case here.

Edited by HollowPoint, 30 June 2013 - 10:45 PM.

[CancR]

The problem is now we are going back to the point where people complained ppcs sucked too much, so the cycle can begin anew.

[Tezcatli]

It does feel like the consequences of over heating are too minor. Even with the self damage they plan to implement. At 150% I hope it does some serious damage.

I suggested else where that over heating should reduce your heat dissipation. So if you're a habbitual over heater. You'll eventually be unable to power back up.

Edited by Tezcatli, 30 June 2013 - 10:41 PM.

[Stonefalcon]

I've been running a 6 PPC Awesome ever since the Awesome came out. Let me run you through what I've seen in this mech's life. Shutdown times based on Caustic Valley.

1. Awesome introduced. PPC's travelled at 800m/s (roughly), 10 damage for 10 heat. ERPPCs produced 15 heat. Other player's reaction when hit. "WTF just killed me, watch out guys, there's some crazy mech that one-shot me". Shutdown time, PPCs 20 seconds, ERPPCs 45 seconds.

2. PPC heat reduced to 9. Other player's reaction. "OMG that is bull, how do you get away with that." Shutdown time, 15 seconds. Found out standing still generates less heat. Shutdown time PPCs 12 seconds, ERPPCs 35 seconds. First time firing an Alpha strike and not shutting down, map was Frozen City, heat spiked to 98%

3. Stalker introduced, PPC speed increased to 2000m/s. "It's another PPC boat, shoot it's side torso, crap there goes my weapons." I loved stalker's they were so slow the Awesome boat could always outmaneuver them and take out a torso before I got shot back.

4. Double Heat Sinks introduced. "HOW CAN YOU FIRE SO MANY PPCS AND STILL STAY POWERED UP? GFY." Shutdown time after serious tweaking 3 seconds standing still. Stopped using ERs at this stage. Dropped to 5 PPC's to not shut down.

5. PPC Heat reduced to 8. "It's PPC-warrior online, either I boat PPC's or I'm dead, hey look an Awesome... and I'm dead." Returned to 6 PPCs. Shut-down time 0 seconds, heat rises to 80%, ERPPCs 2 second shutdown.

I found PPCs were balanced when they produced 10 heat to be honest, you have a 7 tonne weapon that does 10 damage and can fire out to 1080m while only using 3 crit slots. Other weapons by comparison didn't hold up to a 10 heat PPC, how the hell can they compare to an 8 heat one travelling at 2km/s. People using the PPC boat need a deterent from fielding it and the heat was the important factor.

Why did I build it? To be blunt it was designed with one thing in mind, to instantly kill any pilot who would want to ALT-F4 before they died so their opponent didn't get the kill and they preserved their secret K/D ratio and their e-peen.

This game can improve a whole lot more if PPC heat was returned to 10, even 9 would produce the desired result.

[ObsidianSpectre]

I'd really just like to see them lower the PPC projectile speed back down, maybe all the way back to 800 m/s. I suspect that if they do that, they won't need to touch the heat, but it's something that can be looked at after. This would make PPCs more of an anti-assault/slow heavy weapon, and make it much harder to hit lights and mediums. It'd help two broken parts of the meta game at once.