39 replies to this topic

[ICEFANG13]

trrprrprr, on 22 April 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

So how come, when i get massacred by cannons and lasers i almost never loose any heatsinks/weapons. But always when i get attacked by machine gun lighs i loose heatsinks almost every time...

Everything you said makes the MG sound terrible, you should be thankful they don't have something dangerous in comparison (like Small Lasers) that would remove the section and kill you over losing some heatsinks (oh no I'm dead now! Aieeeee).

[Caviel]

trrprrprr, on 22 April 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

So how come, when i get massacred by cannons and lasers i almost never loose any heatsinks/weapons. But always when i get attacked by machine gun lighs i loose heatsinks almost every time...

That's because MGs destroy components. Lasers, AutoCannons, and Missiles destroy the components and the section of the mech along with it. You lose the heatsinks either way, and have the same chance of ammo explosions either way.

From what I see in the log, you lost your leg to an SRM4 hit. You were then hit in the "leg" by the LPL, which transferred the damage to your side torso. This tripped an ammo explosion (Streak SRM2, I presume) which blew off your side torso and corresponding arm. The loss of your side torso killed you due to running an XL engine.

If you were running a standard engine, you may have been left severely disabled missing the right half of your mech, although possibly still alive (Although one would conjecture not for much longer). Having C.A.S.E and a standard engine would have ensured this was the result.

C.A.S.E would have done nothing to protect you in this case because of the XL engine. C.A.S.E just simply causes you to lose your side torso with ammo explosions as opposed to transferring damage to your CT once your side torso and arm are gone.

For those worried about the hit points of engines, don't be. Engine criticals/HP do not work yet, so the HP of an engine doesn't count for squat. You have to destroy the CT (Or CT/ST with XL engines) internals (Internal structure HP=0) to destroy an engine.

That's one thing that will make MGs extremely viable, although that is a discussion for another thread.

[Magicbullet141]

Dude, dont keep your ammo in your legs, just keep it in your head/arm/torso

[Caviel]

Magicbullet141, on 22 April 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Dude, dont keep your ammo in your legs, just keep it in your head/arm/torso

The head would be a much better option since if you lose that section you are dead anyways, plus it is the hardest to hit.

Putting your ammo in your arm is functionally no different than being in your leg, except your legs have more armor. An ammo explosion in the arm transfers to the ST exactly the same way as the leg does. The OP's scenario they would still be dead with no ST or arm, just with both legs instead of one. Meh.

Long story short, if you are running an XL engine, an ammo explosion is going to suck and you'll likely be dead no matter where you put it. Mechs with machine gun ammo in the CT aren't jokingly referred to as roman candles for nothing...

[saagri]

Well, Ive only gotten my arm shot off all of... 3 times I think. Compared to the hundreds of times I lost a leg.

[Lord Psycho]

Krazy Kat, on 20 April 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Google is your friend

Head, shoulders, feet and toes, feet and toes....Head, Shoulders, feet and toes, my fair lady...

first thing that came to mind...

[Sepertar]

trrprrprr, on 22 April 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

So how come, when i get massacred by cannons and lasers i almost never loose any heatsinks/weapons. But always when i get attacked by machine gun lighs i loose heatsinks almost every time...

Because machine guns are deadly to internal, but not your armor.

[Ryebear]

What is interesting is the readout and the damage results imply you can still destroy ammo in a legged mech.

The leg was destroyed by the SRM and then the LPL hit occurred blowing up the ammo (which was in the destroyed leg). Any damage transfer from the LPL hitting the dead leg served only to yell a bit of side torse armor.

[saagri]

Ryebear, on 22 April 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

What is interesting is the readout and the damage results imply you can still destroy ammo in a legged mech.

The leg was destroyed by the SRM and then the LPL hit occurred blowing up the ammo (which was in the destroyed leg). Any damage transfer from the LPL hitting the dead leg served only to yell a bit of side torse armor.

That is interesting... Maybe it happened really fast and thats why that happened.

[Ryebear]

saagri, on 22 April 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

That is interesting... Maybe it happened really fast and thats why that happened.

I've noticed that with ammo explosion kills there is a bit of lag time between the final kill shot and the actually death, maybe the SRM took out the leg and triggered an ammo explosion and the LPL got in and hit some random part of the mech before the ammo explosion actually occurred.

[ShinVector]

Koniving, on 20 April 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Btw. CASE would not stop what happened. This goes beyond the TableTop mechanics.

My advice, if you can squeeze the ammo in the arms, they are harder to hit. Or spread the ammo out more. Ammo "chain reacts," so if one blows, it has a 10% chance of blowing the one next to it. You can cut that off by keeping the ammo spaced out in arms and legs, or you can store it all in the torso with case. Given that your mech has an XL engine, however, there's honestly nothing "safe" that you really could do but carry ammo at your own risk. Though, arms are a lot harder to hit than legs.

Simple fact is just like closed beta the easiest way to kill a light is once again to fry its legs. Thus in a light, EVERYONE with a brain larger than a pea will shoot your legs.

This is wrong. CASE in side torso will stop this problem as damage will not travel into the internal CT.
This is tried and tested.
I had this happen to me in my SRM Stalker and ever since then, CASE is the way to go for me.

Also, I don't play tabletop but I was told this was indeed a mechnic from Table top called the "Snake Eyes rule" or something.

[ICEFANG13]

ShinVector, on 23 April 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

This is wrong. CASE in side torso will stop this problem as damage will not travel into the internal CT.
This is tried and tested.
I had this happen to me in my SRM Stalker and ever since then, CASE is the way to go for me.

Also, I don't play tabletop but I was told this was indeed a mechnic from Table top called the "Snake Eyes rule" or something.

Yeah but with an XL, he would still die.

[Alexander 1978]

Hello.

I knwo this is not 100% on topic but don't you think the Devs should implement a game mechanic similar to the ones used for arms when they get destroyed?

I mean you shoot an arm off from a mech and it flies away in sparks, fire & smoke. Looks cool and makes hitting the "lost" arm afaik impossible.

Do the same thing to a leg and visually not much happens to the destroyed leg and you still can shoot the leg and cause damage. It would be cool if you could blow of a leg from a mech and force it to limp/jump around with only the working leg visible. That way it would look a tad more "real" as far as that counts for a videogame of course. And you'd have to aim more precisely to hit the other leg.

Any opinions on that?

Alexander-1978

[Koniving]

ShinVector, on 23 April 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

This is wrong. CASE in side torso will stop this problem as damage will not travel into the internal CT.
This is tried and tested.
I had this happen to me in my SRM Stalker and ever since then, CASE is the way to go for me.

Also, I don't play tabletop but I was told this was indeed a mechanic from Table top called the "Snake Eyes rule" or something.

The reason I said that CASE would not stop him from dying is he is in a Raven, and has an XL engine. His ammo is in the legs. It seems you didn't read what the original poster was in. Even if the damage does not reach his CT, it still took out his side torso. He dies regardless of if he has CASE or not. Hence, case would not stop it from happening. Thus. "This is correct."

Edited by Koniving, 24 April 2013 - 04:51 AM.

[Ryebear]

CASE should stop it, CASE the side torso and no damage can overflow in or overflow out. It doesn't just protect the CT for side torsos, it protects the sides from the arms and legs.

[Wrenchfarm]

saagri, on 22 April 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Thanks for all the feed back, I put the ammo in my arm and head. I just was used to putting ammo in my legs and this was the first time in any game I died from ammo explosion.

It's not as big a deal as some people make it out to be. The legs are usually pretty safe, just light mechs have a tendency to be legged more often. Then again, a light mech missing a leg is doomed anyway.

I actually wish ammo explosions were a little more common, but I suppose ballistic and missile mechs have enough problems right now as it is.

[Krazy Kat]

Alexander 1978, on 23 April 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

Hello.

I knwo this is not 100% on topic but don't you think the Devs should implement a game mechanic similar to the ones used for arms when they get destroyed?

I mean you shoot an arm off from a mech and it flies away in sparks, fire & smoke. Looks cool and makes hitting the "lost" arm afaik impossible.

Do the same thing to a leg and visually not much happens to the destroyed leg and you still can shoot the leg and cause damage. It would be cool if you could blow of a leg from a mech and force it to limp/jump around with only the working leg visible. That way it would look a tad more "real" as far as that counts for a videogame of course. And you'd have to aim more precisely to hit the other leg.

Any opinions on that?

Alexander-1978

LOL watching an Atlas hopping around on one leg would be pretty funny. I like it!

[Troggy]

This...A thousand times over. A legless Raven is a dead Raven.

And, while I understand crits are possible with out the part being destroyed, it takes min 10 damage and is exceedingly unlikely in this case. Ammo in the legs is fine for light mechs.

--
Troggy

Wrenchfarm, on 24 April 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

Then again, a light mech missing a leg is doomed anyway.

[ICEFANG13]

Troggy, on 25 April 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

This...A thousand times over. A legless Raven is a dead Raven.

And, while I understand crits are possible with out the part being destroyed, it takes min 10 damage and is exceedingly unlikely in this case. Ammo in the legs is fine for light mechs.

--
Troggy

There is a huge reason people don't put ammo in the center torso for any mech, and lights, ESPECIALLY Raven-3Ls are legged, they are probably the most legged mech by far.

DO NOT PUT AMMO IN A PLACE YOU ARE LIKELY TO LOSE ARMOR!

NO AMMO IN LEGS FOR LIGHT MECHS! You do not carry enough weapons that require ammo anyway, you are not about you run out of room and have to place it in the legs.

[ShinVector]

Koniving, on 24 April 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

The reason I said that CASE would not stop him from dying is he is in a Raven, and has an XL engine. His ammo is in the legs. It seems you didn't read what the original poster was in. Even if the damage does not reach his CT, it still took out his side torso. He dies regardless of if he has CASE or not. Hence, case would not stop it from happening. Thus. "This is correct."

Yep. Missed the XL part for some reason. Point taken.

Just that people should know that this can happen with Mechs using Standard engines without CASE.