25 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

My fastest mechs used to be my centurions, trebuchets, and dragons

With the new meta I have only found 1 fast mech where I feel like I am contributing to my team in a meaningful way.

CTF-1X

4PPCs

86.6kph

There is simply no point in running mediums anymore.

I take their side torsos to crit in a single volley, then one shot with my arm mounted pair and they are dead or crippled.

The common scenario

Its sad to watch.

I see the wide loping frame of a reliable CN9-A round the corner 300 meters ahead,

boom his left torso SRMs are destroyed

he does not stop moving, and twists wildly while heading to the next building at 92kph

One shot I carelessly remove a player from the threat list

Or occasionally I bring out my Stalk3F, I cant stand playing it, even though after ~40 matches I have retained a 6.1 kdr

One shot dead medium

Heat limit is too damn high!

Edited by LordBraxton, 20 April 2013 - 06:20 PM.

[Team Leader]

My fastest viable mech... Spider 5D with ECM and an ERPPC

151.3 kph

[Mr 144]

The Jager AC/40 will do basicaly the same thing. Some Trade-offs to be sure, but better all around IMO.

Mr 144

[LordBraxton]

Mr 144, on 20 April 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

The Jager AC/40 will do basicaly the same thing. Some Trade-offs to be sure, but better all around IMO.

Mr 144

Im genuinely curious, you have an ac\40 jager that goes ~85kph??

Im honestly loving that CTF build, Im just not loving that I am only bringing PPCs\Gauss\AC20s these days

Also... I agree mediums get eaten up by ac\40 jagers as well, if the jager can aim.... dead medium

Edited by LordBraxton, 20 April 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[Mr 144]

LordBraxton, on 20 April 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Im genuinely curious, you have an ac\40 jager that goes ~85kph??

Im honestly loving that CTF build, Im just not loving that I am only bringing PPCs\Gauss\AC20s these days

Also... I agree mediums get eaten up by ac\40 jagers as well, if the jager can aim.... dead medium

Nah...the 'fast build' goes ~82ish...close enough...mine only goes ~77 as I prefer the 2xML backups...many run full-tilt at 82 though. The key in comparing the two lies in the comfort level of the AC/20s the pilot has. If you can aim and account for the slow projectile speed, easily usable out to 450ish meters with decent damge. This fits the trade-off with no min-range and better heat effeciency IMO. Two different builds for different playstyles I know, but the roles are approx. the same.

Mr 144

[armyof1]

There's just no reason to bring out my 4SP except for nostalgia as it was the first one I bought. When I think about what I can do with it and what I can do against myself with a 3xUAC5+2xML Jager going at 70+ kph, I just have to admit me in a Jager would kick my *** in a 4SP 19 out of 20 times. Without a very good weight-matching mediums are the punching bags of MWO.

[Mr 144]

I guess the better question Braxton...is do you prefer the higher heat to the 5xLL CTF-1X build? Same speed, better effeciency, higher alpha...but worse pinpoint by far. Honest question...haven't run my 1X for a while.

Mr 144

[Royalewithcheese]

IMO mediums seriously need to be thrown a bone somehow. It really hit me when I ran a fast heavy (wooo AC/40 Jager!) - it's just unfair to expect them to compete with something that has twice their firepower and isn't significantly slower than them.

[darkfall13]

So saw this thread, saw the specific mentioning of the 4SP, so I launched in it, first match got this:

That's just behind a Gauss-K2 and even trumped the assault...

I understand the gloom and doom of AC40, poptarting, lazoring, gaussing death, but really just play smart... and that's coming from someone that just past 0.5 K/D

Edited by darkfall13, 20 April 2013 - 07:59 PM.

[Mr 144]

The 4SP is one of those 'perfect' mechs that will always be viable due to it's un-paralleled torso+arm twist and 4xMLs in them. Hardpoints neccesitate the use of SRM6s for min/maxing purposes. My first Closed Beta Love....I'll NEVER sell it.

Mr 144

[LordBraxton]

If you are good enough to get 500+ damage in a HBK-4SP

you are up against players of a low skill level in comparison to your own

and you could be doing 1000+ in a heavy or assault

I love my mediums too and stroke my epeen when I get top damage in them.

but there is no way they can compete, get the peen out of your eyes men!

(think internal balance, not you vs them, but your own mechs, competing amongst themselves for top contributor to the destruction of all enemies)

Mr 144, on 20 April 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Nah...the 'fast build' goes ~82ish...close enough...mine only goes ~77 as I prefer the 2xML backups...many run full-tilt at 82 though. The key in comparing the two lies in the comfort level of the AC/20s the pilot has. If you can aim and account for the slow projectile speed, easily usable out to 450ish meters with decent damge. This fits the trade-off with no min-range and better heat effeciency IMO. Two different builds for different playstyles I know, but the roles are approx. the same.

Mr 144

was fiddling with my AC\40 jager to get it to max speed

I agree, feels very similar in power level, trading range for some heat efficiency

phract is more nimble tho

Edited by LordBraxton, 20 April 2013 - 08:48 PM.

[Tykelau]

Royalewithcheese, on 20 April 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

IMO mediums seriously need to be thrown a bone somehow. It really hit me when I ran a fast heavy (wooo AC/40 Jager!) - it's just unfair to expect them to compete with something that has twice their firepower and isn't significantly slower than them.

Not to mention a similar sized target. I had a 100ish kph Trebuchet (mastered) with JJ's. It was fun but gets as much attention as a heavy yet has less firepower and armor. The extra speed did not make much difference.

The only medium I still run is a Cicada 3M. I can be very helpful to my team in it, provided I operate as a support mech who can break off for base defense if needed and never ever stop. The Cicada and other light mechs are very unforgiving, 1 mistake and you die.

darkfall13, on 20 April 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

So saw this thread, saw the specific mentioning of the 4SP, so I launched in it, first match got this:

This has more to do with you and your ELO in that mech (weight class?) that it does with mediums or the 4SP. Personally I have never ever seen that many players with only double digit damage. I think you may have been fighting noobs.

Play 50 to 100 matches in it and maybe you will have valid info.

Edited by Tykelau, 20 April 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[Mr 144]

LordBraxton, on 20 April 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

If you are good enough to get 500+ damage in a HBK-4SP

you are up against players of a low skill level in comparison to your own

and you could be doing 1000+ in a heavy or assault

I love my mediums too and stroke my epeen when I get top damage in them.

but there is no way they can compete, get the peen out of your eyes men!

(think internal balance, not you vs them, but your own mechs, competing amongst themselves for top contributor to the destruction of all enemies)

.........................

was fiddling with my AC\40 jager to get it to max speed

I agree, feels very similar in power level, trading range for some heat efficiency

phract is more nimble tho

Now Now...the 4SP is something unique to pilot. It's intrinsic mobility of both 120 degree torso AND 40 degree arm movement (before pilot skills even) puts it in a class all it's own. It literally can't compare to any other piloting. I love it...but am only 'good' with it. I run with someone regularily that is simply 'god' with a 4SP. 500+ damage in competetive 8-mans...you don't wanna know what's possible in Pugs or 4-mans. FotM mediums aside....the 4SP will always be king in my book.

You didn't answer my serious question on your OP though ??? 'phract 1X...5xLL vs. 4xPPC....you prefer the overheating PPC build just for the superior pinpoint? Or have you not extensively run the 5xLL build?

Mr 144

Edit: I can assure you that low ELO is not a factor in his (or my) success with the 4SP...it's truely unique, and worth it's weight in any drop deck. FotM's come and go....but there's always the 4SP

Edited by Mr 144, 20 April 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[darkfall13]

Tykelau, on 20 April 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

This has more to do with you and your ELO in that mech (weight class?) that it does with mediums or the 4SP. Personally I have never ever seen that many players with only double digit damage. I think you may have been fighting noobs.

Play 50 to 100 matches in it and maybe you will have valid info.

And like I said, I have a crap K/D

Edited by darkfall13, 20 April 2013 - 09:10 PM.

[Tykelau]

This has nothing to do with your e-peen, I should not have suggested that that would be valid info. The topic at hand is mediums are still at a disadvantage compared to other classes.


CICADA CDA-3M 85 45 40 1.13 86 44 1.95 22,833 47,138 08:10:09
There, same damage per match, better KDR, all pugging, and it's still useless info.

Edited by Tykelau, 20 April 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[darkfall13]

Why does what I have to say have to do with my e-peen? I was posting specifically in regards to armyof1's statement that he never takes his 4SP out (due to OP situation). I showed that I did just fine with mine off the cuff. YOU say it's due to my low ELO and obviously I don't have enough matches under my belt which I prove wrong. My 4G has a similar dmg/match (albeit lower) and a higher K/D (barely, ffs look at how low my K/D is for the 4SP) which obviously doesn't have speed in its favor.

I'll admit mediums are pretty big targets (physically), but when speed is your ally, the Hunch's don't have much of a chance compared to the Cent or Cicada. So I'd say the mortality rate with them against AC40s, PPCs, LLs cheese etc is even higher.

Edited by darkfall13, 20 April 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[armyof1]

I'm not saying the 4SP can't do well, but can it do as well as a well equipped Jager over a large amount of matches? For me the answer is a definite no. Mediums are basically my favored targets in a Jager as they're big and slow enough for me to hit often, and have too little armor/internals to withstand the kind of damage I can dish out before heat becomes an issue.

Edited by armyof1, 20 April 2013 - 10:18 PM.

[aniviron]

darkfall13, on 20 April 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

So saw this thread, saw the specific mentioning of the 4SP, so I launched in it, first match got this:

That's just behind a Gauss-K2 and even trumped the assault...

I understand the gloom and doom of AC40, poptarting, lazoring, gaussing death, but really just play smart... and that's coming from someone that just past 0.5 K/D

Against a team with five players that couldn't break 100 damage? Clearly, mediums are just fine, the screenshot proves this.

I love my HBK-4P. Love it. It is my favourite mech. But it is not a viable alternative to a heavy which can outrun it while carrying twice the firepower. (For that matter, it is not a viable alternative to my AWS-9M which is only 4kph slower, hits much much harder, and has more armor.)

[Inyc]

I still get my best scores in my CN9-AL with 2 LL, 2 ML, 2SSRM2 and XL275. I've won 3v1s, I've come out of games with a thousand damage and 6 kills. But it only has a 292.5 per game average damage with a 1.47 K/D and 1.04 W/L.

I get much more reliable results in my Jm6-S with 2 AC/10 and 4ML, XL300. Its got a 590.5 average damage per game about 171 games. 1.44 W/L and 2.01 K/D

So yea, Medium mechs can do really well. But ultimately they are the worst off right now. I would never be able to beat my Jager in my Cent if I was playing against myself. Like 15 KP/H difference but the pin-point firepower of the Jager is crazy.

[darkfall13]

aniviron, on 20 April 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Against a team with five players that couldn't break 100 damage? Clearly, mediums are just fine, the screenshot proves this.

I love my HBK-4P. Love it. It is my favourite mech. But it is not a viable alternative to a heavy which can outrun it while carrying twice the firepower. (For that matter, it is not a viable alternative to my AWS-9M which is only 4kph slower, hits much much harder, and has more armor.)

Thanks (***), I never said this proved anything other than the fact that you can still do well enough in the medium class. And as I have already said, speed is of the essence, and yes as you have pointed out that means nothing to mediums since they're not faster than anything. That coupled with their large size doesn't make for long life spans.