6 replies to this topic

[Hispano]

Según tengo entendido los mechs propios a nuestra gloriosa casa Marik son:

- Panther *
- Spider *
- Trebuchet*
- HunchBack
- Awesome

* - Tengo dudas si son originarios de la casa Marik

¿Hay alguno más (valkyrie, victor, higlander, clint, etc, etc)?

Es por saber cuales son los mechs emblemáticos de la facción y sólo usar esos cuando salgan, sean mejores o peores, eso da igual.


Por otro lado, he estado jugando al juego de tablero gracias al mechwarrior tactics y me estoy leyendo las novelas y tal. Y resulta de que muy dificilmente un mech ligero puede tumbar a un mech de asalto por no decir que es imposible. Y esto por la capacidad de aguante que estos tienen y el superior armamento. ¿Porque en este juego pasa justo lo contrario? Los mechs ligeros hacen un daño tremendo a los de asalto y al ser más ágiles no pueden recibir respuesta, más aparte los mechs de asalto caen con pocas ráfagas de disparo.

¿Alguien sabe si esta patraña se va a corregir?

Google Translator into english language:

As I have understood the mechs themselves to our glorious home Marik are:


- Panther *

- Spider *

- Trebuchet *

- Hunchback

- Awesome


* - I have doubts if they originate in the House Marik


Are there any more (valkyrie, victor, higlander, clint, etc, etc)?


Is to know which are the iconic mechs faction and only use those when they come out, are better or worse, that does not matter.



On the other hand, I've been playing board game thanks to MechWarrior tactics and I'm reading the novels and such. It turns out that very hardly one light mech can knock down a mech assault not to say that is impossible. And this endurance capacity and that they have superior weaponry. Because in this game goes just the opposite? The light mechs do tremendous damage from assault to be more agile and can not reply, most other assault mechs fall with few bursts of fire.


Does anyone know if this hoax be corrected?

[Timbar]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Orion

This is mech is also marik

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Black_Knight

and this one too! Si!

[Graysen]

Hello!

This topic has been discussed recently here: http://mwomercs.com/...-favored-mechs/

Hopefully that will be helpful for you.

If I understand you correctly, you are asking whether light battlemechs can beat assault battlemechs easily? It is definitely possible for light mechs to beat assault mechs, but it is not certain. The skill of the pilots will have a large impact on the outcome.

[Bragas Halas]

Hispano, on 21 April 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

On the other hand, I've been playing board game thanks to MechWarrior tactics and I'm reading the novels and such. It turns out that very hardly one light mech can knock down a mech assault not to say that is impossible. And this endurance capacity and that they have superior weaponry. Because in this game goes just the opposite? The light mechs do tremendous damage from assault to be more agile and can not reply, most other assault mechs fall with few bursts of fire.

I´m also not sure if I understood you correctly. You are saying that normally, light mechs should have no chance against an assault class mech, while in MWO, they actually overpower assault mechs, right?

Well, when piloting my all-time favorite mech, the Awesome 9M with 3ER PPCs and 2 Streak SRM4, turning when being followed by a light mech isn´t enough to target him with my missiles, but standing or driving backwards AND turning usually does the trick. Once you hit them with your short-range weapons, they usually retreat quite fast, but it really depends on the pilot´s skills and his tenacity.
Sure, theoretically, I could hit him very hard with my ER PPC´s and the missiles, but if the enemy has ECM, things are different. Things like having partial cover or standing in an open field are also important.
Overally speaking, when being engaged in most light-mech duels when piloting the AWS-9M, I rarely destroy them because they retreat before it gets ugly, but they finish me off quite often I have to admit.

[Stingr4y]

I do see your point. Tabletop, Tactics and Novels portray light mechs as the cheaper, more expendable mechs that are used on the battlefield, yet it is portrayed in the novels that once an assault mech lumbers onto the battlefield, the tide turns in their favor.

My retort to this is the experience in the drops. I am sure you have been in a drop with a team of people and after a hard fought battle and a loss, someone states: well, we just got out-tonned. You just can't match the firepower and armor in lighter groups. But in a game of skill, you can take a chiseled group of light pilots to wreak havok on the battlefield and control the fight. Bragas stated it perfectly: it really depends on the pilot´s skills and his tenacity.

MWO does focus on balance as much as they can. If lights got treated in MWO as they do with TT or novels, nobody would be playing them. But it is about Role warfare. each class has a role.

It is a hard question to ask me before an 8-man drop: Would you rather sacrifice an assault mech for a light mech, or sacrifice a light for an assault? To me, it is about the pilots you have in your group, and who you trust to do what is needed to be done.

[Hispano]

Hola a todos y perdonad el retraso para responder, es que tengo acceso a internet del bueno de muy tarde en tarde.
Primeramente sobre los Mechs Marik, resulta que según la Novel de Camino al Exilio con Justin Xiang Allard llega al Mundo de Juego y le dejan el Ye Lo Wang dicen que el Centurion es un Mech de la casa Marik, luego la lista quedaría así:

- Spider *
- Trebuchet *
- Centurion
- Hunchback
- Awesome
- Orion
- Black Knight

* - Tengo dudas si son originarios de la casa Marik.

El Panther por lo visto es propio de los Draconianos, es decir de la casa Kurita, así que lo saco de la lista.

Por otro lado respecto de lo del rol de los mechs en el juego.
En la novela de Camino al Exilio, que creo que es la primera y más emblemática, vemos una situación clara de lo que es la atmósfera de Mechwarrior: Justin Allard, sale con su patrulla a hacer unos ejercicios rutinarios, y una lanza de Cicadas asalta a sus lanzas de Stingers, Andrew Redburn se las ve y se las desea para hacerle frente a los Cicadas a base del criticado por los jugadores de MWO "Poptarting" (Jump and shoot), ya que gracias a los jetpacks de los Stingers y de su Spider (Lo que me hace dudar de si el Spider es de la Federación de Soles, aunque cuenta como es un mech capturado pero no se de quien) saltan por encima del ángulo de tiro de los Cicada y les causan suficientes bajas como para que se retiren. Bueno pues Justin Allard se va a un bosquezuelo cercano porque detecta un mech pesado, un Rifleman, con su Valkiria le hace frente y siendo un piloto veterano, de gran habilidad y demás, sólo consigue hacerle al Rifleman daños superficiales, el Rifleman por su parte con una sola andanada revienta el Valkiria y deja a Justin para el arrastre.

Por otro lado en el juego de tablero, una lanza de 4 stalkers con 4ppcs (unos 6800 puntos) contra una lanza de 4 spiders con medium lasers y jetpacks (unos 2000 puntos), normalmente los spider no llegan al 4 turno vivos. En el juego Online 4 Spiders con medium lasers y jetpacks destrozan a 4 stalkers con 4PPCS, ya que los primeros tiros con el ECM, será muy raro que den y si da, da 1, para la segunda andanada, los Spiders ya estan casi encima de los Stalkers y la gestión de calor de los Stalkers rondará el 70%, para la tercera andanada, los Spiders ya estan a menos de 90 metros de los PPC con lo que son prácticamente invulnerables y los Stalkers que disparen entrarán en pérdida por sobrecalentamiento. Durante lo que sería la 4 anadanada que no se producirá por sobrecalentamiento, los Spiders habrán hecho entre 3 o 5 disparos de 3 med pulse lasers a la espalda de los Stalkers cada uno, una 5 andanada de los Stalkers, nuevamente en pérdida y ahí es cuando los spiders los revientan al calzarle otros 3 o 5 disparos de 3 med pulse lasers.

El problema que yo veo no esta en que los ligeros tengan que ser empeorados para cumplir el rol de las novelas o juegos de tablero, es que los mechs de asalto, tienen que ser mejorados para representar lo que son, y para ello, lo fundamental es incrementar exponencialmente su aguante, es decir, tanto en novelas como en juegos de tablero, lo que caracteriza a un mech de asalto es su gran dureza y resistencia. Bien, si juegas con Awesomes, te darás cuenta de que es el mech más fácil de matar de todo MWO, varios tiros al torso y listo. Cuando un Awesome en tablero y en el mechwarrior tactic le he visto aguntar multiples andanadas de LRM20, PPCs, etc como si nada.
La capacidad de soportar castigo por los Asalto no esta nada trabajada en MWO y caen como si fueran de mantequilla, siendo la resistencia al daño bastante semejante entre un ligero y un asalto, pero la movilidad muy superior en el ligero, al ser más dificil de impactarlo hace que sea unas 3 o 4 veces más dificil de matar un mech ligero que uno de asalto, cosa que directamente es una blasfemia.
Por otro lado, la capacidad de armamento, un Jenner es capaz de llevar 6 lasers medios, un Awesome 8Q... lo mismo, si si lo mismo. Otra cosa que caraceteriza a los Asaltos de tablero es que puedes ponerles tantas armas como por peso y slots te quepan, pudiendo un 8q llegar a llevar unos 10 láseres medios y un buen puñado de heatsinks entre otras, es decir, los asaltos suelen tener una capacidad muy superior de armamento, que a veces se ve reflejado en MWO pero muchas otras no.
Entonces el problema de los asaltos es que estan deconstruidos, porque han pérdido o no han tenido nunca, la capacidad de aguante que los caracteriza y han sido limitados en armamento a llevar lo mismo que puede llevar un mech medio o uno pesado. Y además sufren de su poca movilidad, de su falta de velocidad y de la pésima gestión del calor que generan las armas en MWO que hace que sea imposible disparar con una cadencia relativamente normal, por todo ello son mechs inferiores a los ligeros y el peor mech de todo el juego es el Awesome 8Q. Una verdadera tristeza.

Y ahora google translator:


Hello everyone and forgive the delay in response is that I have the good internet access very seldom.

First on the Mechs Marik, is that according to the Nobel Road to Exile with Justin Xiang Allard arrives Game World and leave the Ye Lo Wang say the Centurion is a Mech Marik house, then the list would look like:


- Spider *
- Trebuchet *
- Centurion
- Hunchback
- Awesome

- Orion

- Black Knight


* - I have doubts if they originate in the House Marik.


The Panther is apparently typical of the Draconians, ie Kurita house, so take it out of the list.


Furthermore regarding what the role of the game Mech.

In the novel Path to Exile, which I think is the first and most symbolic, we see a clear situation what is the atmosphere of Mechwarrior: Justin Allard, leaves with his patrol to do some routine exercises, and a spear of Cicadas assaults Stingers their spears, Andrew Redburn are seen and they want to deal with the Cicadas criticized based on the MWO players "Poptarting" (Jump and shoot), and thanks to the Stingers jetpacks and the Spider (What makes me doubt if the Spider is of the Federated Suns, but has as a mech captured but do not know who) jump above angle shot of the Cicada and causing them low enough so that withdraw. Well Justin Allard goes to a nearby woods it detects a mech heavy, a Rifleman, with her Valkyrie stands up and being a veteran pilot of great skill and so on, just get him to Rifleman surface damage, meanwhile the Rifleman with a single barrage busting Justin Valkyrie and leaves for the drag.


Elsewhere on the board game, a spear 4 stalkers with 4ppcs (about 6800 points) against a spear medium 4 spiders with lasers and jetpacks (about 2000 points), the spider does not normally reach 4 turn alive. In the game Online 4 Spiders with medium lasers and jetpacks to 4 stalkers to destroy 4PPCS since the first shots with the ECM, will rarely give and if hits, hits 1 for the second volley, the Spiders and are almost on top Stalkers and the heat management of the Stalkers will be around 70% for the third broadside, the Spiders and are less than 90 meters of the PPC with what are practically invulnerable and enter Stalkers to shoot overheating loss. During what would be the four volley that overheating does not occur, the Spiders have done between 3 to 5 shots 3 med press lasers to the backs of each Stalkers, May 1 barrage of Stalkers, again in loss and there is when the burst spiders to calzarle another 3 or 5 shots 3 med press lasers.


The problem I see is not in the light have to be impaired to fulfill the role of novels and board games is that assault mechs, have to be improved to represent what they are, and for this, the fundamental is exponentially increasing its resistance, ie, in novels like board games, which characterizes an assault mech is its hardness and strength. Well, if you play with Awesomes, you will realize that it is the easiest to kill mech all MWO, several shots to the torso and ready. When a Awesome on board and in the MechWarrior tactic I've seen multiple barrages aguntar LRM20, PPPs, etc. as usual.

The ability to withstand punishment for Assault is not anything worked in MWO and fall like butter, damage resistance being quite similar between light and assault, but much higher mobility in the light, being more difficult to impact it makes it about 3 or 4 times more difficult to swing a light mech that one of assault, which is blasphemy directly.

Furthermore, the ability of weapons, one Jenner is able to carry 6 lasers means a 8Q Awesome ... Likewise, if if the same. Another thing Assaults caraceteriza the board is that you can bring them many weapons as you fit weight and slots, can one get to wear 8q about 10 medium lasers and a bunch of heatsinks among others, ie, assaults often have a much higher capacity weapons, which is sometimes reflected in MWO but many do not.

Then the problem is that they are deconstructed assaults because they have lost or have never had the staying power that characterized and have been limited to carry the same weapons that can carry a medium or a heavy mech. And suffer from their lack of mobility, lack of speed and mismanagement of the heat generated in MWO weapons that makes it impossible to shoot with a relatively normal rate, for all that are lower than the light mechs and worst mech in the game is the Awesome 8Q. A real sadness.

Edited by Hispano, 27 April 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[Hispano]

About assaults and ligths, you can se my stats, same pilot, different mechs:

Assault class: · AWESOME AWS-8Q (6LL) 84; 36; 48; 0.75; 57; 57; 1.00; 21,021; 33,592; 06:48:25

Medium class: · HUNCHBACK HBK-4SP (4ML+2SRM6) 209; 07; 102; 1.05; 140; 140; 1.00; 52,964; 98,537; 17:18:03

Light class: · SPIDER SDR-5D (3MPL) 187; 104; 83; 1.25; 129; 84; 1.54; 38,543; 110,582; 19:10:33

Edited by Hispano, 29 April 2013 - 10:50 AM.